On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 07:00:30AM +0200, Halil Pasic wrote:

On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 14:20:47 -0400
"Michael S. Tsirkin" [off-list ref] wrote:

quoted

quoted

quoted

From my perspective the problem is that the version of the device  

remains in limbo as long as the features have not yet been finalized,
which means that the endianness of the config space remains in limbo as
well. Both device and driver might come to different conclusions.  

Version === legacy versus modern?
It is true that feature negotiation can not be used by device to decide that
question simply because it happens too late.
So let's not use it for that then ;)

Yes we have VERSION_1 which looks like it should allow this, but
unfortunately it only helps with that for the driver, not the device.

In practice legacy versus modern has to be determined by
transport specific versioning, luckily we have that for all
specified transports (can't say what happens with rproc).

So if we look at ccw, you say that the revision negotiation already
determines whether VERSION_1 is negotiated or not, and the
feature bit VERSION_1 is superfluous?

That would also imply, that 
1) if revision > 0 was negotiated then the device must offer VERSION_1
2) if revision > 0 was negotiated and the driver cleared VERSION_1
   the device must refuse to operate.
3) if revision > 0 was negotiated then the driver should reject 
   to drive a device if it does not offer VERSION_1
4) if revision > 0 was negotiated the driver must accept VERSION_1
5) if revision > 0 was *not* negotiated then the device should not offer
   VERSION_1 because at this point it is already certain that the device
   can not act in accordance to the virtio 1.0 or higher interface.

Does that sound about right?

To me, it does.

IMHO we should also change 
https://docs.oasis-open.org/virtio/virtio/v1.1/cs01/virtio-v1.1-cs01.html#x1-160003
and the definition of VERSION_1 because both sides have to know what is
going on before features are fully negotiated. Or?

Regards,
Halil

I guess so. And I guess we need transport-specific sections
describing this behaviour for each transport.

So something like this, for starters?

diff --git a/content.tex b/content.tex
index 1398390..c526dd3 100644
--- a/content.tex
+++ b/content.tex

@@ -140,10 +140,13 @@ \subsection{Legacy Interface: A Note on Feature
 Bits}\label{sec:Basic Facilities of a Virtio Device / Feature
 Bits / Legacy Interface: A Note on Feature Bits}
 
-Transitional Drivers MUST detect Legacy Devices by detecting that
-the feature bit VIRTIO_F_VERSION_1 is not offered.
-Transitional devices MUST detect Legacy drivers by detecting that
-VIRTIO_F_VERSION_1 has not been acknowledged by the driver.
+Transitional drivers MAY support operating legacy devices.
+Transitional devices MAY support operation by legacy drivers.
+
+Transitional drivers MUST detect legacy devices in a way that is
+transport specific.
+Transitional devices MUST detect legacy drivers in a way that
+is transport specific.
 
 In this case device is used through the legacy interface.
 

@@ -160,6 +163,25 @@ \subsection{Legacy Interface: A Note on Feature
 Specification text within these sections generally does not apply
 to non-transitional devices.
 
+\begin{note}
+The device offers different features when used through
+the legacy interface and when operated in accordance with this
+specification.
+\end{note}
+
+Transitional drivers MUST use Devices only through the legacy interface
+if the feature bit VIRTIO_F_VERSION_1 is not offered.
+Transitional devices MUST NOT offer VIRTIO_F_VERSION_1 when used through
+the legacy interface.
+
+When the driver uses a device through the legacy interface, then it
+MUST only accept the features the device offered through the
+legacy interface.
+
+When used through the legacy interface, the device SHOULD
+validate that the driver only accepted the features it
+offered through the legacy interface.
+
 \section{Notifications}\label{sec:Basic Facilities of a Virtio Device
 / Notifications}
 

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