--- Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 05:50:40PM -0700, Jon Smirl wrote:

quoted

--- James Simmons <jsimmons@infradead.org> wrote:

quoted

2) Ben suggestion that we mount userland inside the kernel during

early 

quoted

quoted

   boot and use a userland library. If we would use a library

then it MUST 

quoted

quoted

   be OpenGL. This would be the forced standard on all platforms.

This 

quoted

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   would mean Mesa would be needed to build the kernel. We could

move over 

quoted

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   Mesa into the kernel like zlib is in the tree right now.

It is not true that it must be OpenGL. The suggestion is for an

independent

quoted

library that would support mode setting and cursor control.

Actually OpenGL does

quoted

not specify an API for these things, we would need to develop one.

But broader issues are at work. Microsoft has decided to recode all

graphics in

quoted

Longhorn to use Direct3D. This was done to get at the performance

gains provided

quoted

by D3D and hardware accelerated graphics. For example a Cairo

implementation hat

quoted

uses X rendering vs Cairo on OpenGL was benchmarked at being a

100:1 faster.

quoted

A proposal has been made that OpenGL be promoted as the primary

base graphics

quoted

API on Linux. Then things like Cairo and the xserver be implemented

on top of

quoted

OpenGL.

1) OpenGL is the only fully accelerated API that Linux has. We

don't have D3D or

quoted

anything else like it. Fully accelerated interfaces are a pain to

build and it

quoted

would stupid to do another one.

Notice that this is not really true, as there is no free OpenGL
acceleration for any of the newer graphic cards coming out right now.
The fastest graphic card with full free acceleration is the radeon
9000,
which is now two generations old. This means that there is no
acceleration outside of the x86 world, since neither ATI nor Nvidia
are
ready to build their proprietary drivers on anything else than x86. 

There is the possiblity that graphics vendors may provide an open
source DRM and mode setting code and then closed source 3D libraries. 
this would at least allow you to at least get something on the screen. 

As long as this doesn't change, stating that we have an accelerated
API
for OpenGL in linux is not only dead wrong, but is leading us in a
dangerous direction, where we will depend on a non-free component in
the
kernel and were we are going to forget about graphic support on
anything
non-x86.

well what should we do then?  ignore graphics on linux since most
future graphics chips drivers closed source?  keep the same kludgey
xfree86 solution?  We can still provide a solution for non-x86 or chips
without 3D, it will just have to be software based (or marginally
accelerated using 2d). why re-invent openGL when we already have it? 
If we can provide a good system for graphics on linux perhaps more
vendors will use it.

Alex

Friendly,

Sven Luther

	
		
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