----- Original Message -----

From: "Sarah Sharp" <redacted>
To: "CAI Qian" <redacted>
Cc: "Trond Myklebust" <redacted>, "Ric Wheeler" <redacted>, "David Lang"
[off-list ref], ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, "Greg Kroah-Hartman" [off-list ref],
"Darren Hart" [off-list ref], "Ingo Molnar" [off-list ref], "Olivier Galibert" [off-list ref],
"Linux Kernel Mailing List" [off-list ref], "stable" [off-list ref], "Linus Torvalds"
[off-list ref], "Willy Tarreau" [off-list ref]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 10:48:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 03:36:36AM -0400, CAI Qian wrote:

quoted

quoted

On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:31 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote:

quoted

On 07/16/2013 07:12 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote:

quoted

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 06:54:59PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:

quoted

On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 15:43 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:

In order to make our community better, we need to figure out where
the
baseline of "good" behavior is.  We need to define what behavior we
want
from both maintainers and patch submitters.  E.g. "No regressions"
and
"don't break userspace" and "no personal attacks".  That needs to be
written down somewhere, and it isn't.  If it's documented somewhere,
point me to the file in Documentation.  Hint: it's not there.

That is the problem.

Sarah Sharp

The problem you are pointing out - and it is a problem - makes us less
effective
as a community.

Not really. Most of the people who already work as part of this
community are completely used to it. We've created the environment, and
have no problems with it.

Where it could possibly be a problem is when it comes to recruiting
_new_ members to our community. Particularly so given that some
journalists take a special pleasure in reporting particularly juicy
comments and antics. That would tend to scare off a lot of gun-shy
newbies.

On the other hand, it might tend to bias our recruitment toward people
of a more "special" disposition. Perhaps we finally need the services of
a social scientist to help us find out...

Does that sound like there are not going to have enough direct/thick skin
new kernel developers around to maintain the future Linux community? Maybe
just need a better pipeline for people comfortable for this culture?

No, we don't need a better pipeline for people who can "put up with
shit".  We need a better pipeline for people who can work together
civilly, and still get shit done.

I'm working on getting a pipeline of women into kernel development,
through the FOSS Outreach Program for Women.  They slowly get introduced
to Linux development culture, starting with a very friendly separate
mailing list and IRC channel, and finally moving to work with a kernel
mentor on a bigger project on the main Linux kernel development lists.
We have seven women participating this round, and I suspect we'll have
even more the next round.

So deal with it.  You're going to have a lot more women in the kernel
community, and not all of them will be willing to put up with verbal
abuse.  If you want to attract top talent that also happen to be women
or racial minorities, the verbal abuse needs to stop.

Maybe we need something like this?
http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct

Sarah Sharp
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