On Tue, Aug 10 2021, Derrick Stolee wrote:

On 8/5/2021 11:07 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:> We're in the 2.33.0 rc cycle, and I'd hoped to have some more prep

quoted

work for this integrated already, but for now here's something
interesting I've been working on for early commentary/feedback.

I've taking a brief look at the code, but mostly have thoughts about the
core idea based on reading the documentation. I'll keep my feedback here
restricted to that, especially because I saw some thoughts from Jonathan
that question the idea.

Thanks a lot for taking a look, and sorry about the very late reply. I
was away from the computer for a while (on vacation).

quoted

This adds the the ability to protocol v2 for servers to optimistically
pre-seed supporting clients with one or more bundles via a new
"bundle-uri" protocol extension.

To make sure I understand things correctly, I'm going to rewrite the
description of the feature in my own words. Please correct me if I have
misread something.

Thanks. I'll probably try to steal some of this summary...

This presents a new capability for protocol v2 that allows a server to
notify a client that they can download a bundle to bootstrap their object
database, and then come back to the origin server to "catch up" the
remaining new objects since that bundle via a fetch negotiation.

This idea is similar to the packfile-uri feature in that it offloads some
server load to a dumb data store (like a CDN) but differs in a few key
ways:

1. The bundle download does not need to be controlled by the server, and
   the server doesn't even need to know its contents. The client will
   discover the content and share its view in a later negotiation.

Correct.

2. The packfile-uri could advertise a pack that contains only the large
   reachable blobs, and hence could use the "happy path" for bitmaps to
   compute a packfile containing all reachable objects except these large
   blobs. For the bundle-uri feature to mimic this, the blobs would need
   to be reachable from refs (perhaps shallow tags?) but it would not be
   clear that the negotiation would prevent redownloading those files.
   This is an area to explore and expand upon.

Correct that this isn't handled currently.

The few paragraphs below are mostly a (hopefully helpful) digression.

Despite what I said in
https://lore.kernel.org/git/87h7g2zd8f.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com/ (local) about
packfile-uri and bundle-uri playing nicely together there are cases
where they won't. They won't error out or anything, just that combining
them in those cases won't make much sense.

In particular if you now use packfile-uri to exclude one giant blob from
your early history, you can't use bundle-uri to serve up that early
history without also including that blob (as we'll expect the bundles to
be connected).

That property isn't inherent though, in the same way that we're clever
about .gitmodules checking we could make note of any missing content and
do a full connectivity check at the end.

But if you're using packfile-uri for that "one big blob on a CDN" I
don't see why you wouldn't be happy to serve it up in your bundle, so I
don't see much of a practical reason for further work in that area.

And yes, you do run into limitations in the general negotiation
mechanism eventually (which to be fair, we probably wouldn't care about
before bundle-uri). E.g. we can't say we HAVE a blob OID currently
(server expects commit OID).

I don't see why it *couldn't* be supported though, and would be handled
under the hood with the same happy path for bitmaps that we use for
packfile-uri exclusions now...

3. The bundle-uri feature is focused on "clone" scenarios, and I don't see
   how it could be used to help "fetch" scenarios. To be fair, I also have
   been vocal about how the packfile-uri feature is very hard to make
   helpful for the "fetch" scenario. The benefits to "clone" seem to be
   worth the effort alone. I think the bundle-api doubles-down on that
   being the core functionality that matters, and that is fine by me. It
   sacrifices the flexibility of the packfile-uri with a lower maintenance
   burden for servers that want to implement it.

Not correct, I'm going to have it handle incremental fetches.

What *is* correct is that the initial RFC patches here entirely punt on
it (I only hook them into clone.c, no fetch.c).

I focused on the "clone" case to get to a MVP earlier, and as you note I
think in practice most users of this will want to only use it for clone
bootstrapping, and won't care so much about the incremental case.

But for the "fetch" case we'd simply start fetching the N bundles in
parallel, and read their headers, then abort fetching any whose header
declares tips that we already have.

So e.g. for a repo with a "big" bundle that's 1 week old, and 7
incremental bundles for the last 7 days of updates we'd quickly find
that we only need the last 3 if we updated 4 days ago, based on only
fetching their headers.

The client spec is very liberal on "MAY" instead of "MUST" for
supporting clients. E.g. a client might sensibly conclude that their
most recent commits are recent enough, and that it would probably be a
waste of time to fetch the headers of the pointed-to bundles, and just
do a normal fetch instead.

The response format is also currently:

    <URI>[ <optional key-value>*]

And nothing uses the "optional key-value". One of the main things I had
in mind was to support something like (none of these key-values are
specified currently):

    https://example.com/big.bundle tip=deadbeef1
    https://example.com/incremental-1.bundle prereq=deadbeef1 tip=deadbeef2
    https://example.com/incremental-2.bundle prereq=deadbeef2 tip=deadbeef3

Or:

    https://example.com/big.bundle type=complete
    https://example.com/incremental-1.bundle type=incremental
    https://example.com/incremental-2.bundle type=incremental

I.e. allow the server to up-front to optionally specify some details
about the pointed-to-bundles, purely so the client can avoid the work
and roundtrip of trying to fetch the headers of N pointed-to bundles
just to see which if any it needs for a clone/fetch.

This peeking behind the curtain would always yield to the source of
truth of inpecting the bundle header/content itself, so it would be
purely an optional client hint. It's also not as flexible as a full
bundle header (e.g. can't supply N tips or N prereqs, but for the common
case of "one big history" it should work nicely.

But maybe this use for key-value headers would be a premature
optimization, I haven't actually benchmarked it...

The biggest benefit that I see is that the Git server does not need to
worry about whether the bundle has an exact set of data that it expects.
There is no timing issue about whether or not the exact packfile is seeded.
Instead, the server could have a fixed URL for its bundle and update its
contents (atomically) at any schedule without worrying about concurrent
clones being interrupted. From an operational perspective, I find the
bundle-uri a better way to offload "clone" load.

Thanks, yeah. That's pretty the main reason I hacked this up when we
already have packefile-uri, being able to e.g. have a dumb cronjob
(which may not even run) optimistically handle your CDN offloading.

This also depends on that following "git fetch" being easy to serve. In
that sense, it can be beneficial to be somewhat aware of the bundles that
are being served: can we store the bundled refs as reachability bitmaps so
we have those available for the negotiation in the following "git fetch"
operations? This choice seems specific to how the server is deciding to
create these bundles.

Yeah, one of the first things I'm experimenting with on the server side
(but haven't yet) is to generate bundles on the one hand, and being
aware of the last generated bundle do the equivalent of pre-populating
the pack-objects hook cache in anticipation of pre-seeded clients coming
in.

It also presents interesting ideas for how to create the bundle to focus
on some core portion of the repo. The "thundering herd" of CI machines
that re-clone repos at a high rate will also be likely to use the
"--single-branch" option to reduce the refs that they will ask for in the
negotiation. In that sense, we won't want a snapshot of all refs at a
given time and instead might prefer a snapshot of the default branch or
some set of highly-active branches.

Yes, the current RFC MVP I have is rather dumb about this, but it's an
easy follow-up change along with the "fetch" support to e.g. have a
server have one "big" bundle of just its main branch in anticipation of
--single-branch --no-tags fetches, and then the next bundle is the delta
between that and the other branches.

So the first is master, the second is master..next, master..seen + tags
etc. The client from ls-refs what tips it wants, so it can then ignore
or retrieve the bundles as appropriate.

A server operator can then play around with what they think might be the
optimal arrangement and split-up of bundles.

They obviously can't handle all cases, e.g. if you have a bundle with
"master" and clone just git.git's "todo" branch with these current
patches you'll get redundant objects you don't need currently, but a
slightly smarter client will be ignoring that bundle-uri.

One question I saw Jonathan ask was "can we modify the packfile-uri
capability to be better?" I think this feature has enough different goals
that they could co-exist. That's the point of protocol v2, right? Servers
can implement and advertise the subset of functionality that they think is
best for their needs.

*Nod*, I also think as shown with these patches the overall complexity
after setting up the scaffolding for a new feature isn't very high, and
much of it is going away in some generally useful prep patches I'm
trying to get in...

I hope my ramblings provide some amount of clarity to the discussion, but
also I intend to show support of the idea. If I was given the choice of
which feature to support (I mostly work on the client experience, so take
my choice with a grain of salt), then I would focus on implementing the
bundle-uri capability _before_ the packfile-uri capability. And that's the
best part: more options present more flexibility for different hosts to
make different decisions.

Thanks again. I'll keep you CC'd on future submissions if that's OK.

One thing I could really use to move this forward is code review of some
of the outstanding serieses I've got, in particular these two are
immediately applicable to this one. It's based on the former, and I
needed to steal one patch from the latter:

https://lore.kernel.org/git/cover-v4-00.10-00000000000-20210805T011823Z-avarab@gmail.com/ (local)
https://lore.kernel.org/git/cover-v2-0.4-00000000000-20210823T110136Z-avarab@gmail.com/ (local)