Re: [PATCH 3/5] v2 seccomp_filters: Enable ftrace-based system call filtering

* Peter Zijlstra [off-list ref] wrote:

Cut the microblaze list since its bouncy.

On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 15:18 +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:

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* Peter Zijlstra [off-list ref] wrote:

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On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 14:54 +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:

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I think the sanest semantics is to run all active callbacks as well.

For example if this is used for three stacked security policies - as if 3 LSM 
modules were stacked at once. We'd call all three, and we'd determine that at 
least one failed - and we'd return a failure. 

But that only works for boolean functions where you can return the
multi-bit-or of the result. What if you need to return the specific
error code.

Do you mean that one filter returns -EINVAL while the other -EACCES?

Seems like a non-problem to me, we'd return the first nonzero value.

Assuming the first is -EINVAL, what then is the value in computing the
-EACCESS? Sounds like a massive waste of time to me.

No, because the common case is no rejection - this is a security mechanism. So 
in the normal case we would execute all 3 anyway, just to determine that all 
return 0.

Are you really worried about the abnormal case of one of them returning an 
error and us calculating all 3 return values?

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Also, there's bound to be other cases where people will want to employ
this, look at all the various notifier chain muck we've got, it already
deals with much of this -- simply because users need it.

Do you mean it would be easy to abuse it? What kind of abuse are you most 
worried about?

I'm not worried about abuse, I'm saying that going by the existing
notifier pattern always visiting all entries on the callback list is
undesired.

That is because many notifier chains are used in an 'event consuming' manner - 
they are responding to things like hardware events and are called in an 
interrupt-handler alike fashion most of the time.

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Then there's the whole indirection argument, if you don't need
indirection, its often better to not use it, I myself much prefer code
to look like:

   foo1(bar);
   foo2(bar);
   foo3(bar);

Than:

   foo_notifier(bar);

Simply because its much clearer who all are involved without me having
to grep around to see who registers for foo_notifier and wth they do
with it. It also makes it much harder to sneak in another user, whereas
its nearly impossible to find new notifier users.

Its also much faster, no extra memory accesses, no indirect function
calls, no other muck.

But i suspect this question has been settled, given the fact that even pure 
observer events need and already process a chain of events? Am i missing 
something about your argument?

I'm saying that there's reasons to not use notifiers passive or active.

Mostly the whole notifier/indirection muck comes up once you want
modules to make use of the thing, because then you need dynamic
management of the callback list.

But your argument assumes that we'd have a chain of functions to call, like 
regular notifiers.

While the natural model here would be to have a list of registered event 
structs for that point, with different filters but basically the same callback 
mechanism (a call into the filter engine in essence).

Also note that the common case would be no event registered - and we'd 
automatically optimize that case via the existing jump labels optimization.

(Then again, I'm fairly glad we don't have explicit callbacks in kernel/cpu.c 
for all the cpu-hotplug callbacks :-)

Anyway, I oppose for the existing events to gain an active role.

Why if 'being active' is optional and useful?

Thanks,

	Ingo