Re: Market research for new PowerPC system

one other idea (sorry)
Debian is not providing an altivec optimized version. If you want that you
have to go with Gentoo. If you were building cpu optimized from the ground
up with the libaltivec and perhaps the c++ altivec libraries (that require
translation for the changed library calls to all the source codes that use
them -- ughh) -- it would be a lot more interesting. I've thought about
doing the Gentoo but its a lot of compiling, especially on slower cpus (I've
had some experience with fink and macports in MacOSX which want that too)


On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Guennadi Liakhovetski <
g.liakhovetski@gmx.de> wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009, Konstantinos Margaritis wrote:

quoted

(Sorry for the cross-posting, please ignore if you are not interested in

this,

quoted

CC me as I'm not subscribed)
Hi,

First some introductions. I'm Konstantinos Margaritis, a long time
Amiga/BeOS/Linux user/developer and a PowerPC fan, former Debian

Developer,

quoted

also a SIMD/AltiVec fanatic and the author of libfreevec. I've posted

this on

quoted

the following sites:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=29594&forum=33&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

quoted

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49424

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6465&forum=11

quoted

http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id=3768&forum=4

quoted

http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/market_research_new_powerpc_system#comment-12604

quoted

To anyone who is not a PowerPC user, it might seem like crazy, but here

it

quoted

goes:

I'm considering funding the design & production of a new PowerPC system

(well,

quoted

the motherboard, the rest are typical pc stuff and a case). No this is

not a

quoted

joke, I've been wanting to do this for a long time, and perhaps the

chance

quoted

will be given to me now. But before I spend any money on this, I want to

do a

quoted

little market research first. I know the market is literally "dying" for

a new

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powerpc motherboard, but exactly how many are there that want to buy one?

Ok, just a short comment. In principle I like diversity, competition, etc.
And it was somewhat sad when Apple abandoned ppc. But honestly - why
should I be buying a ppc desktop system? If we restrict our comparison to
Linux, because that's what I'm using, what advantages would a ppc system
give me over a comparable in price ix86 system? This is not meant
negatively, I just have not followed recent ppc CPUs from the "desktop"
range, so, this is a real honest question. Would such a system provide
more MIPS per Watt at the same price? Or more periferals? Or some specific
hardware blocks unavailable or unsupported om ix86?

Thanks
Guennadi

quoted

Ok, let's give some rough specs first. I'm considering 3 choices -not in

order

quoted

of probability/importance:

1. MPC8640D-based. It will be dual core at 1Ghz -most likely, higher
frequencies are much more expensive and the cost of the final board would

be

quoted

prohibitive.
2. MPC8610-based. Single core at 1Ghz, slightly less expensive, and

includes a

quoted

2D DIU display unit -quite fast, but no 3D unfortunately.
3. QorIQ P1022-based. Again dual core at 1Ghz (1055Mhz to be precise).

Apart

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from the much lower chip price, this one includes dual gigabit ethernet,

dual

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SATA, USB 2.0 and a 2D DIU display unit (same as the MPC8610). So this

one

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would lower the cost of the board quite much. Disadvantages: No AltiVec

unit

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(it sucks I know), though it includes an SPE unit which is not that bad,

and

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availability will be in Q3/Q4 2010, so that's a long wait.

Now, the end motherboard will probably be MicroATX (in the 8640D/8610

case) or

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PicoITX (in the P1022 case), and it will definitely include:

* SATA connectors
* USB (possibly 2 back and 2 front, but that's discussable)
* Dual gigabit (at least one will be there, in the case of the MPC8640D

we

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might even have 4!!!)
* Sound (of course, SPDIF support will definitely be there)
* 1 PCI-e slot 1x
* 1 PCI-e slot (4x in the P1022 case, 8x in the MPC86xx cases)

Ok, what I want to know is if people would really really buy one of

these. End

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price is estimated to be ~around~ 350EUR for the P1022 board or ~500EUR
(definitely more in the case of 8640D) in the case of the other boards.
Besides being more expensive, the MPC86xx chips, don't include SATA, USB

and

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only one of ethernet/sound (quad-gige in MPC8640D case, or sound in the

case

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of MPC8610). I know this sounds a lot, but it's the reality, there is not
enough funding to build enormous amounts of units and bring the prices

down

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substantially, we have to start low and build up from there. In case you

are

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wondering, yes, the boards will be designed/produced by bPlan and funded

by my

quoted

company (Codex).

Support for OSes: Linux definitely, Haiku most probably and there is a
possibility of supporting AmigaOS/MorphOS, which will depend on the

actual

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feedback I get from those users.

I would like to make a list of everyone that is really interested in such

a

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system, so it would really help me make a decision sooner rather than

later if

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you would send me a few personal details to markos@codex.gr with subject
"PowerPC board":

* Name
* Country
* email (definitely, I'd have to reach you back!)
* Phone/Skype (optional, please include international prefix)
* Forum you saw this post (ok, Morphzone in this case)
* OS of preference
* board you would be most interested in (MPC8610/MPC8640D/P1022)
* preferred price (please have in mind the estimated price quotes I

mentioned,

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it might be lower but that's not very probable)
* Other notes/comments

Also, I found out that I had to state my case on many forums to prove

that

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this is not vapourware. Well, it will not be vapourware, if I get

feedback. So

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far the feedback I got can be summarized here:

http://www.codex.gr/index.php?pageID=&blogItem=60

Thanks a lot for your time and I hope this system becomes a reality.

Konstantinos Margaritis

Codex
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---
Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D.
Freelance Open-Source Software Developer
http://www.open-technology.de/


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