RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

12 messages, 9 authors, 2000-07-09 · open the first message on its own page

RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Benjamin Herrenschmidt <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 10:59:15

Hi all !

Currently, the default partition type used by Linux/PPC on mac partition
maps is Apple_UNIX_SVR2. This is historically the type used by Apple's A/
UX for its own partitions. However, I don't like it since it gives no
indication on the type of filesystem on the partition, and I see no
reason to keep it.

So I suggest moving to Linux_ext2, Linux_swap, or maybe simply Linux and
Linux_swap (since ext2 is not the only filesystem Linux may put on
these). Using a different type for swap would help avoiding confusion.

If everyone is ok, we can then update pdisk, and on my side, I'll update
the kernel's root-auto-detect mecanism to take this into account. (The
kernel will currently find by itself a root partition if it has the above
type and the name "root" and no root= option was specified by the bootloader).

Any comments ?

Ben.


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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Tom Gall <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 13:05:32

Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
Hi all !
Greets!
So I suggest moving to Linux_ext2, Linux_swap, or maybe simply Linux and
Linux_swap (since ext2 is not the only filesystem Linux may put on
these). Using a different type for swap would help avoiding confusion.
I agree. I think this is a good step. However there's the obvious interoperability
problems with MacOS, OS X etc... Hopefully Apple's OSes wouldn't do anything evil
to the partition they don't recognize.

Regards,

Tom

Tom Gall - PowerPC Linux Team    "Where's the ka-boom? There was
Linux Technology Center           supposed to be an earth
(w) tom_gall@vnet.ibm.com         shattering ka-boom!"
(w) 507-253-4558                 -- Marvin Martian
(h) tgall@uswest.net
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux


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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Olaf Hering <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 13:28:06

On Fri, Jul 07, Tom Gall wrote:
Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
quoted
Hi all !
Greets!
quoted
So I suggest moving to Linux_ext2, Linux_swap, or maybe simply Linux and
Linux_swap (since ext2 is not the only filesystem Linux may put on
these). Using a different type for swap would help avoiding confusion.
I agree. I think this is a good step. However there's the obvious interoperability
problems with MacOS, OS X etc... Hopefully Apple's OSes wouldn't do anything evil
to the partition they don't recognize.
As someone real important said a couple of weeks ago:
Don't trust them.


You know the slogan of Apple ;)



Gruss Olaf

--
 $ man clone

BUGS
       Main feature not yet implemented...

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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Hollis Blanchard <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 13:33:10

Tom Gall wrote:
Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
quoted
So I suggest moving to Linux_ext2, Linux_swap, or maybe simply Linux and
Linux_swap (since ext2 is not the only filesystem Linux may put on
these). Using a different type for swap would help avoiding confusion.
I agree. I think this is a good step. However there's the obvious interoperability
problems with MacOS, OS X etc... Hopefully Apple's OSes wouldn't do anything evil
to the partition they don't recognize.
Well, they don't at this point. For example in partitioning tool in
LinuxPPC 2000, LinuxPPC Inc decided it would be better to use the type
"Linux_PPC". This works (in that nothing gets overwritten, corrupted,
etc) but has the disadvantage that no other software knows anything
about that type.

If you were writing software it would be pretty poor form to find data
you didn't understand and decide to "fix" it. I know there are programs
like that out there (if you look at
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partitions/partition_types-1.html it seems
there is a rich history of them), but Apple seems to be doing well in
that regard so far...

Of course, everything may change with OS X but I would hope they don't
get malicious all of a sudden.

-Hollis

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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Eric Valette <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 14:12:50

Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
Hi all !

Currently, the default partition type used by Linux/PPC on mac partition
maps is Apple_UNIX_SVR2. This is historically the type used by Apple's A/
UX for its own partitions. However, I don't like it since it gives no
indication on the type of filesystem on the partition, and I see no
reason to keep it.

So I suggest moving to Linux_ext2, Linux_swap, or maybe simply Linux and
Linux_swap (since ext2 is not the only filesystem Linux may put on
these). Using a different type for swap would help avoiding confusion.

If everyone is ok, we can then update pdisk, and on my side, I'll update
the kernel's root-auto-detect mecanism to take this into account. (The
kernel will currently find by itself a root partition if it has the above
type and the name "root" and no root= option was specified by the bootloader).

Any comments ?
Do not forget Prep Machines that have already a specific type of
partition that is already recognised by cfdisk...

--
   __
  /  `                   	Eric Valette - Canon CRF
 /--   __  o _.          	Canon Development Europe Team Leader
(___, / (_(_(__         	Rue de la touche lambert
				35517 Cesson-Sevigne  Cedex
				FRANCE
Tel: +33 (0)2 99 87 68 91	Fax: +33 (0)2 99 84 11 30
E-mail: valette@crf.canon.fr	http://www.crf.canon.fr

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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Charles Stevenson <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 15:25:50

I think it's a great idea. I don't use MacOS so I don't share the concern of
how MacOS X could affect the partitions. Equally, I trust if Apple is properly
advised of such a change they would take measures to ensure compatibility.
Linux sells Apple hardware too. ;-)

Best Regards,
Charles Stevenson

On Fri, 07 Jul 2000, Hollis Blanchard wrote:
Tom Gall wrote:
quoted
Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
quoted
So I suggest moving to Linux_ext2, Linux_swap, or maybe simply Linux and
Linux_swap (since ext2 is not the only filesystem Linux may put on
these). Using a different type for swap would help avoiding confusion.
I agree. I think this is a good step. However there's the obvious interoperability
problems with MacOS, OS X etc... Hopefully Apple's OSes wouldn't do anything evil
to the partition they don't recognize.
Well, they don't at this point. For example in partitioning tool in
LinuxPPC 2000, LinuxPPC Inc decided it would be better to use the type
"Linux_PPC". This works (in that nothing gets overwritten, corrupted,
etc) but has the disadvantage that no other software knows anything
about that type.

If you were writing software it would be pretty poor form to find data
you didn't understand and decide to "fix" it. I know there are programs
like that out there (if you look at
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partitions/partition_types-1.html it seems
there is a rich history of them), but Apple seems to be doing well in
that regard so far...

Of course, everything may change with OS X but I would hope they don't
get malicious all of a sudden.

-Hollis
--
  Terra Soft Solutions, Inc.
  http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/

  Yellow Dog Linux
  "The Ultimate Companion for a Dedicated Server"
  http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/

  Black Lab Linux
  Advanced Workstations, Parallel, and Embedded Solutions
  http://www.blacklablinux.com/


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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Michael Schmitz <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 16:14:09

quoted
quoted
So I suggest moving to Linux_ext2, Linux_swap, or maybe simply Linux and
Linux_swap (since ext2 is not the only filesystem Linux may put on
these). Using a different type for swap would help avoiding confusion.
I agree. I think this is a good step. However there's the obvious interoperability
problems with MacOS, OS X etc... Hopefully Apple's OSes wouldn't do anything evil
to the partition they don't recognize.
Well, they don't at this point. For example in partitioning tool in
LinuxPPC 2000, LinuxPPC Inc decided it would be better to use the type
"Linux_PPC". This works (in that nothing gets overwritten, corrupted,
etc) but has the disadvantage that no other software knows anything
about that type.
So can we get all distributions to agree on this partition type scheme?
IIRC Debian currently relies on the Apple_Unix_SVR2 type, and ignores
everything else for the purpose of installing or creating swap space. I'd
like to update the Debian version of pdisk to recognize types used by
other distributions if possible.
LinuxPPC 1999 used the same type, and I think the 2000 change is a bad
thing. What are YellowDog and SuSE using?

Plus I don't think Apple cares too much, they may currently ignore strange
partition types but decide to nuke them tomorrow.

Benh: are you maintaining the official version of pdisk now?

	Michael


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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Mark Hatle <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 17:37:26

That sounds like a great idea.  Looking at:
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac/Devices/Devices-126.html

You'll see:
pmParType
              A string that identifies the partition type. Names that
begin with Apple_ are reserved for use by Apple Computer, Inc....

It looks to me that this allows us to use any name we wish, as long as
it doesn't start with "Apple_"

My vote: let the kernel still look for Apple_UNIX_SVR2 the way it does
now.  Then I would like it to be able to use anything that starts with
"Linux".  That way people can name there parts types whatever they want,
but Linux_ext2 and Linux_swap should be defaults.

Anyway, thats my suggestions, do what you wish!

Thanks!
--Mark


Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
Hi all !

Currently, the default partition type used by Linux/PPC on mac partition
maps is Apple_UNIX_SVR2. This is historically the type used by Apple's A/
UX for its own partitions. However, I don't like it since it gives no
indication on the type of filesystem on the partition, and I see no
reason to keep it.

So I suggest moving to Linux_ext2, Linux_swap, or maybe simply Linux and
Linux_swap (since ext2 is not the only filesystem Linux may put on
these). Using a different type for swap would help avoiding confusion.

If everyone is ok, we can then update pdisk, and on my side, I'll update
the kernel's root-auto-detect mecanism to take this into account. (The
kernel will currently find by itself a root partition if it has the above
type and the name "root" and no root= option was specified by the bootloader).

Any comments ?

Ben.
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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Nelson Abramson <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 19:30:20

Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
quoted
Benh: are you maintaining the official version of pdisk now?
No, I'm not. I don't know if someone actually maintains it
I believe one of the original (the original?) creator(s) of pdisk is now
part of the Linux/PPC community.  IIRC, he was working on upgrading pdisk
and fixing the problems that were highlighted previously in the list
archives.  I haven't heard anything recently, so I have no idea what the
status is.

--Nelson Abramson


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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Benjamin Herrenschmidt <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 22:19:50

Benh: are you maintaining the official version of pdisk now?
No, I'm not. I don't know if someone actually maintains it


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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Benjamin Herrenschmidt <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-07 22:21:37

with "Apple_"

My vote: let the kernel still look for Apple_UNIX_SVR2 the way it does
now.  Then I would like it to be able to use anything that starts with
"Linux".  That way people can name there parts types whatever they want,
but Linux_ext2 and Linux_swap should be defaults.
The kernel will be able to use anything. The only kernel change concerns
the root auto-detect stuff.

What will need to change, however, are the various distro installers,
pdisk, yaboot, perhaps quik, ...

Ben.

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Re: RFC: Changing default partition type for linux/ppc

From: Hollis Blanchard <hidden>
Date: 2000-07-09 07:37:54

Michael Schmitz wrote:
quoted
Well, they don't at this point. For example in partitioning tool in
LinuxPPC 2000, LinuxPPC Inc decided it would be better to use the type
"Linux_PPC". This works (in that nothing gets overwritten, corrupted,
etc) but has the disadvantage that no other software knows anything
about that type.
So can we get all distributions to agree on this partition type scheme?
[snip]
LinuxPPC 1999 used the same type, and I think the 2000 change is a bad
thing. What are YellowDog and SuSE using?
I agree. So far the Linux "standard" has been to pretend to be A/UX
partitions. To my knowledge, every distribution with the exception of
LinuxPPC 2000 uses Apple_UNIX_SVR2. (And I'm not sure that alteration
was especially well thought out.)
Benh: are you maintaining the official version of pdisk now?
That would be Eryk Vershen [off-list ref], who recently resurfaced in
February
(http://lists.linuxppc.org/listarcs/linuxppc-user/200002/msg01471.html).



So now that the conversation's died down, it seems like everybody's
happy with "Linux" (Mark Hatle's suggestion was for "Linux_*") and
"Linux_swap".

-Hollis

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