On 10/7/20 10:40 PM, Doug Anderson wrote:

Hi,

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 6:26 AM Rob Herring [off-list ref] wrote:

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On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 8:17 PM Doug Anderson [off-list ref] wrote:

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Hi,

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 3:24 PM Rob Herring [off-list ref] wrote:

quoted

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 12:39 PM Doug Anderson [off-list ref] wrote:

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Hi,

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:40 AM Lukasz Luba [off-list ref] wrote:

quoted

On 10/2/20 4:47 PM, Doug Anderson wrote:

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Hi,

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 8:13 AM Lukasz Luba [off-list ref] wrote:

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Hi Doug,

On 10/2/20 3:31 PM, Doug Anderson wrote:

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Hi,

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 4:45 AM Lukasz Luba [off-list ref] wrote:

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Update the documentation for the binding 'sustainable-power' and allow
to provide values in an abstract scale. It is required when the cooling
devices use an abstract scale for their power values.

Signed-off-by: Lukasz Luba <lukasz.luba@arm.com>
---
    .../devicetree/bindings/thermal/thermal-zones.yaml  | 13 +++++++++----
    1 file changed, 9 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/thermal/thermal-zones.yaml b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/thermal/thermal-zones.yaml
index 3ec9cc87ec50..4d8f2e37d1e6 100644
--- a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/thermal/thermal-zones.yaml
+++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/thermal/thermal-zones.yaml

@@ -99,10 +99,15 @@ patternProperties:
          sustainable-power:
            $ref: /schemas/types.yaml#/definitions/uint32
            description:
-          An estimate of the sustainable power (in mW) that this thermal zone
-          can dissipate at the desired control temperature. For reference, the
-          sustainable power of a 4-inch phone is typically 2000mW, while on a
-          10-inch tablet is around 4500mW.
+          An estimate of the sustainable power (in mW or in an abstract scale)
+         that this thermal zone can dissipate at the desired control
+         temperature. For reference, the sustainable power of a 4-inch phone
+         is typically 2000mW, while on a 10-inch tablet is around 4500mW.
+
+         It is possible to express the sustainable power in an abstract
+         scale. This is the case when the related cooling devices use also
+         abstract scale to express their power usage. The scale must be
+         consistent.

Two thoughts:

1. If we're going to allow "sustainable-power" to be in abstract
scale, why not allow "dynamic-power-coefficient" to be in abstract
scale too?  I assume that the whole reason against that originally was
the idea of device tree purity, but if we're allowing the abstract
scale here then there seems no reason not to allow it for
"dynamic-power-coefficient".

With this binding it's a bit more tricky.
I also have to discuss a few things internally. This requirement of
uW/MHz/V^2 makes the code easier also for potential drivers
like GPU (which are going to register the devfreq cooling with EM).

Let me think about it, but for now I would just update these bits.
These are required to proper IPA operation, the dyn.-pow.-coef. is a
nice to have and possible next step.

I guess the problem is that Rajendra is currently planning to remove
all the "dynamic-power-coefficient" values from device tree right now
and move them to the source code because the numbers we currently have
in the device tree _are_ in abstract scale and thus violate the
bindings.  Moving this to source code won't help us get to more real
power numbers (since it'll still be abstract scale), it'll just be
pure churn.  If we're OK with the abstract scale in general then we
should allow it everywhere and not add churn for no reason.

IIUC he is still going to use the Energy Model, but with different
registration function. We have such a driver: scmi-cpufreq.c, which
uses em_dev_register_perf_domain(). He can still use EM, EAS, IPA
not violating anything.

Right.  He's going to take the exact same "abstract scale" numbers
that he has today and take them out of device tree and put them in the
cpufreq driver.  Doing so magically makes it so that he's not
violating anything since "abstract scale" is not currently allowed in
device tree but is allowed in the cpufreq driver.  I'm not saying that
he's doing anything wrong, I'm just saying that it's pointless churn.
If we're OK with "abstract scale" in one place in the device tree we
should be OK with it everywhere in the device tree.  Then Rajendra
wouldn't need his patch at all and he could leave his numbers in the
device tree.

quoted

The real problem that we want to address is with sustainable-power in
IPA. It is used in power budget calculation and if the devices operate
in abstract scale, then there is an issue.
There are two options to get that value:
1. from DT, which can have optimized value, stored by OEM engineer
2. from IPA estimation code, which just calculates it as a sum of
minimum OPP power for each cooling device.

The 2nd option might not be the best for a platform, so vendor/OEM
engineer might want to provide a better value in DT -> 1st option.
This is currently against the binding description and I have to fix it.

Right, things are already broken today because a SoC vendor could
(without violating any rules) provide their SoC core
"dynamic-power-coefficient" in "abstract scale" in code and there
would be no way to for a board to (without violating DT bindings)
specify a "sustainable-power".  ...so, in that sense, your patch does
provide a benefit even if we don't make any changes to the rules for
"sustainable-power".  All I'm saying is that if these new rules for
allowing an abstract scale for "sustainable-power" in the device tree
are OK that it should _also_ be OK to add new rules to allow an
abstract scale for "dynamic-power-coefficient".

Didn't we beat this one to death with "dynamic-power-coefficient"?

We did?  Where / when?

https://lore.kernel.org/r/1448288921-30307-1-git-send-email-juri.lelli@arm.com/ (local)

Thanks for the reference.

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I'm not sure I was involved, but right now
both "sustainable-power" and "dynamic-power-coefficient" are still
defined in the device tree to be in real units, not abstract scale.
Are you saying that we beat it to death and decided that it needed to
be in real units, or we beat it to death and decided that abstract
scale was OK and we just didn't put it in the bindings?

The former.

OK.  So I suppose this is a NAK to Lukasz's patch.  It also means that:

I also consider this as a NAK for this patch 3/3, but other two can go.
It will be also NAK for dt-binding change adding 'abstract scale'
description to "dynamic-power-coefficient", so I won't post it.

* The power numbers that landed in the sc7180 devicetree violate
what's documented in the bindings.

* While Rajendra can fix this by moving the numbers out of devicetree
and into code, it doesn't really help us because there will be no way
to allow boards to specify their "sustainable-power" in code.

* Anyone who is using the "abstract scale" provided by firmware or by
code is in the same boat.  There's no way for a board to specify
"sustainable-power" that will match this "abstract scale" without
violating the devicetree bindings.

Obviously the easiest way to fix this is to just move everyone off of
"abstract scale".

If someone else has other bright ideas I'm all ears.

To summarize, we allow abstract scale to be in EM, EAS and IPA.
For EM/EAS it is possible have this via
em_dev_register_perf_domain()
IPA would also get these devices with abstract scale, but the DT
"sustainable-power" would not be aligned, so might be not set in DT.
For that, what would help:
- IPA internal code for sustainable power estimation
- thermal sysfs interface for IPA 'sustainable_power'

In this case I think patch 1/3 and 2/3 can go into upstream.
This one (patch 3/3) can be dropped.

Thank you Rob and Doug for this discussion.

Regards,
Lukasz