On Thu 13-04-23 12:25:41, Amir Goldstein wrote:

On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 9:44 PM Jan Kara [off-list ref] wrote:

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Hi Amir!

On Tue 11-04-23 15:40:37, Amir Goldstein wrote:

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If kernel supports FAN_REPORT_ANY_FID, use this flag to allow testing
also filesystems that do not support fsid or NFS file handles (e.g. fuse).

Signed-off-by: Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>
---

Jan,

I wanted to run an idea by you.

My motivation is to close functional gaps between fanotify and inotify.

One of the largest gaps right now is that FAN_REPORT_FID is limited
to a subset of local filesystems.

The idea is to report fid's that are "good enough" and that there
is no need to require that fid's can be used by open_by_handle_at()
because that is a non-requirement for most use cases, unpriv listener
in particular.

OK. I'd note that if you report only inode number, you are prone to the
problem that some inode gets freed (file deleted) and then reallocated (new
file created) and the resulting identifier is the same. It can be
problematic for a listener to detect these cases and deal with them.
Inotify does not have this problem at least for some cases because 'wd'
uniquely identifies the marked inode. For other cases (like watching dirs)
inotify has similar sort of problems. I'm muttering over this because in
theory filesystems not having i_generation counter on disk could approach
the problem in a similar way as FAT and then we could just use
FILEID_INO64_GEN for the file handle.

Yes, of course we could.
The problem with that is that user space needs to be able to query the fid
regardless of fanotify.

The fanotify equivalent of wd is the answer to that query.

If any fs would export i_generation via statx, then FILEID_INO64_GEN
would have been my choice.

One problem with making up i_generation (like FAT does it) is that when
inode gets reclaimed and then refetched from the disk FILEID_INO64_GEN will
change because it's going to have different i_generation. For NFS this is
annoying but I suppose it mostly does not happen since client's accesses
tend to keep the inode in memory. For fanotify it could be more likely to
happen if watching say the whole filesystem and I suppose the watching
application will get confused by this. So I'm not convinced faking
i_generation is a good thing to do. But still I want to brainstorm a bit
about it :)

But if we are going to change some other API for that, I would not change
statx(), I would change name_to_handle_at(...., AT_HANDLE_FID)

This AT_ flag would relax this check in name_to_handle_at():

        /*
         * We need to make sure whether the file system
         * support decoding of the file handle
         */
        if (!path->dentry->d_sb->s_export_op ||
            !path->dentry->d_sb->s_export_op->fh_to_dentry)
                return -EOPNOTSUPP;

And allow the call to proceed to the default export_encode_fh() implementation.
Alas, the default implementation encodes FILEID_INO32_GEN.

I think we can get away with a default implementation for FILEID_INO64_GEN
as long as the former (INO32) is used for fs with export ops without ->encode_fh
(e.g. ext*) and the latter (INO64) is used for fs with no export ops.

These default calls seem a bit too subtle to me. I'd rather add explicit
handlers to filesystems that really want FILEID_INO32_GEN encoding and then
have a fallback function for filesystems not having s_export_op at all.

But otherwise the proposal to make name_to_handle_at() work even for
filesystems not exportable through NFS makes sense to me. But I guess we
need some buy-in from VFS maintainers for this.

quoted

Also I have noticed your workaround with using st_dev for fsid. As I've
checked, there are actually very few filesystems that don't set fsid these
days. So maybe we could just get away with still refusing to report on
filesystems without fsid and possibly fixup filesystems which don't set
fsid yet and are used enough so that users complain?

I started going down this path to close the gap with inotify.
inotify is capable of watching all fs including pseudo fs, so I would
like to have this feature parity.

Well, but with pseudo filesystems (similarly as with FUSE) the notification
was always unreliable. As in: some cases worked but others did not. I'm not
sure that is something we should try to replicate :)

So still I'd be interested to know which filesystems we are exactly
interested to support and whether we are not better off to explicitely add
fsid support to them like we did for tmpfs.

If we can get away with fallback to s_dev as fsid in vfs_statfs()
I have no problem with that, but just to point out - functionally
it is equivalent to do this fallback in userspace library as the
fanotify_get_fid() LTP helper does.

Yes, userspace can workaround this but I was more thinking about avoiding
adding these workarounds into fanotify in kernel *and* to userspace.

quoted

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I chose a rather generic name for the flag to opt-in for "good enough"
fid's.  At first, I was going to make those fid's self describing the
fact that they are not NFS file handles, but in the name of simplicity
to the API, I decided that this is not needed.

I'd like to discuss a bit about the meaning of the flag. On the first look
it is a bit strange to have a flag that says "give me a fh, if you don't
have it, give me ino". It would seem cleaner to have "give me fh" kind of
interface (FAN_REPORT_FID) and "give me ino" kind of interface (new
FAN_REPORT_* flag). I suspect you've chosen the more complex meaning
because you want to allow a usecase where watches of filesystems which
don't support filehandles are mixed with watches of filesystems which do
support filehandles in one notification group and getting filehandles is
actually prefered over getting just inode numbers? Do you see real benefit
in getting file handles when userspace has to implement fallback for
getting just inode numbers anyway?

Yes, there is a benefit, because a real fhandle has no-reuse guarantee.

Even if we implement the kernel fallback to FILEID_INO64_GEN, it does
not serve as a statement from the filesystem that i_generation is useful
and in fact, i_generation will often be zero in simple fs and ino will be
reusable.

Also, I wanted to have a design where a given fs/object always returns
the same FID regardless of the init flags.

Your question implies that if
"userspace has to implement fallback for getting just inode numbers",
then it doesn't matter if we report fhandle or inode, but it is not accurate.

The fanotify_get_fid() LTP helper always gets a consistent FID for a
given fs/object. You do not need to feed it the fanotify init flags to
provide a consistent answer.

For all the reasons above, I think that a "give me ino'' flag is not useful.
IMO, the flag just needs better marketing.
This is a "I do not need/intend to open_by_handle flag".
Suggestions for a better name are welcome.

I see, yes, these reasons make sense.

For all I care, we do not need to add an opt-in flag at all.
We could simply start to support fs that were not supported before.
This sort of API change is very common and acceptable.

There is no risk if the user tries to call open_by_handle_at() with the
fanotify encoded FID, because in this case the fs is guaranteed to
return ESTALE, because fs does not support file handles.

This is especially true, if we can get away with seamless change
of behavior for vfs_statfs(), because that seamless change would
cause FAN_REPORT_FID to start working on fs like fuse that
support file handles and have zero fsid.

Yeah. Actually I like the idea of a seamless change to start reporting fsid
and also to start reporting "fake" handles. In the past we've already
enabled tmpfs like this...

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The patch below is from the LTP test [1] that verifies reported fid's.
I am posting it because I think that the function fanotify_get_fid()
demonstrates well, how a would-be fanotify library could be used to get
a canonical fid.

That would-be routine can easily return the source of the fid values
for a given filesystem and that information is constant for all objects
on a given filesystem instance.

The choise to encode an actual file_handle of type FILEID_INO64 may
seem controversial at first, but it simplifies things so much, that I
grew very fond of it.

FILEID_INO64 is a bit of a hack in particular because it's difficult to
pretend FILEID_INO64 can be used for NFS. But I agree it is very convenient
:). If we were to do this cleanly we'd have to introduce a new info
structure with ino instead of handle and three new FAN_EVENT_INFO_TYPE_*

Alas, there are more than three:
/* Special info types for FAN_RENAME */
#define FAN_EVENT_INFO_TYPE_OLD_DFID_NAME       10
/* Reserved for FAN_EVENT_INFO_TYPE_OLD_DFID    11 */
#define FAN_EVENT_INFO_TYPE_NEW_DFID_NAME       12
/* Reserved for FAN_EVENT_INFO_TYPE_NEW_DFID    13 */

and I *really* prefer to avoid duplicating all of them.

Yeah, I was just thinking loud :).

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types. As I wrote above, we might be able to actually fill-in
FILEID_INO64_GEN which would be less controversial then I suppose.

Yes, that would definitely be better.

								Honza
-- 
Jan Kara [off-list ref]
SUSE Labs, CR