Re: [RFC PATCH 0/6] Allow setting file birth time with utimensat()

On Feb 17, 2019, at 8:35 AM, Boaz Harrosh [off-list ref] wrote:

On 15/02/19 00:06, Dave Chinner wrote:

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On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 02:00:07AM -0800, Omar Sandoval wrote:

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From: Omar Sandoval <redacted>

Hi,

Since statx was added in 4.11, userspace has had an interface for
reading btime (file creation time), but no way to set it. This RFC patch
series adds support for changing btime with utimensat(). Patch 1 adds
the VFS infrastructure, patch 2 adds the support to utimensat() with a
new flag, and the rest of the patches add filesystem support; I excluded
CIFS for now because I don't have a CIFS setup to test it on.

Updating btime is useful for at least a couple of use cases:

[1]

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- Backup/restore programs (my motivation for this feature is btrfs send)
- File servers which interoperate with operating systems that allow
 updating file creation time, including Mac OS [1] and Windows [2]

So you're adding an interface that allows users to change the create
time of files without needing any privileges?

[2]

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Inode create time is forensic metadata in XFS  - information we use
for sequence of event and inode lifetime analysis during examination
of broken filesystem images and systems that have been broken into.
Just because it's exposed to userspace via statx(), it doesn't mean
that it is information that users should be allowed to change. i.e.
allowing users to be able to change the create time on files makes
it completely useless for the purpose it was added to XFS for...

<snap>

I think the difference in opinion here is that there are two totally
different BTIme out in the world. For two somewhat opposite motivations
and it seems they both try to be crammed into the same on disk space.

One - Author creation time
 This is a Windows originated creature and later MAC (and all vendors who
 make a living by serving cifs (hint see my email address))

 This is a tag carried globally on the globe denoting the time of the
 original creator of the file. copy, download, backup-restore and so
 on preserve it from the very first original creation.
 This creature is a user oriented information. That needs to be carefully
 orchestrated by all parties.

One of the issues with user-supplied "creation time" is that it is vague.
If Vim (or many other programs) is writing out an existing file, it
will actually create a new file and rename it over the old file, so even
though the newly-written file is "created" at write time, the content is
older.  Unless the creation time is actually stored internal to the file
itself, rather than as filesystem metadata, it is unlikely to be kept
across filesystems, between systems, etc.

Conversely, there is already such metadata in existing file formats, e.g.
.jpg (Exif.Image.DateTime), .png (tEXt Creation Time), .docx (Date Completed),
etc. that sticks with the file regardless of the underlying storage medium.

Cheers, Andreas