On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Nick Krause [off-list ref] wrote:

On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Philipp Muhoray
[off-list ref] wrote:

quoted

Am 2014-08-20 19:20, schrieb Nick Krause:

quoted

On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Lidza Louina [off-list ref] wrote:

quoted

I agree with Jason.

I do want Nick to learn the kernel (anyone who wants to learn should
be able to and we're always looking for new developers) but most of us
don't have the time or training to be able to help him. Learning via
email seems to be a very bad medium for him to get a kernel education.
Emails already take away the human element from communicating (tone of
voice, facial expressions, etc), and on top of that he has this
disorder. I really believe that if he finds someone to act as a middle
man between him and the kernel making sure that he understands our
emails (to the best of his ability), will help tremendously. I'm sure
he's smart enough and earnest, but his Asperger's is making this very
difficult for everyone.

Hopefully once a system that works for him is set in place, he can
tell us what is working for him and the kernel could learn how to
better interact with people with communication disorders and others
with Autism.

Lidza

On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Mandeep Sandhu
[off-list ref] wrote:

quoted

Agree with Jason here.

If you don't find his questions palatable, just _ignore_ them instead
of sending rants and sarcastic emails which just wastes more of your
own time. That way the SNR of this list will improve! :)

On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:46 AM, Jason Conklin [off-list ref] wrote:

quoted

Guys, stop it. Nick has told us he has Asperger syndrome; as such, he
is not likely to understand facetious or flippant remarks for what
they are. The time you've spent responding to Nick's emails would be
much better used reading a little about autism spectrum disorders
[1,2] and the kinds of difficulty and confusion they cause in more
normal ("neurotypical") contexts, for both AS people and the people
they interact with. Otherwise, just move on.

I am not a psychologist or an expert on autism spectrum disorders, but
I know enough to recognize that his behavior on this and other lists
is consistent with several aspects of those disorders. The sad thing
is that he's getting treated as a malicious troll or a fool, when it's
pretty clear (to me, anyway) that he's fascinated by the kernel and
just trying to learn as well as he knows how.

Without going into autism spectrum intricacies or speculating on
Nick's particular traits, I'll note that Aspergers is "characterized
by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal
communication" (from Wikipedia) -- which we have seen repeatedly in
Nick's frequently inappropriate and unresearched questions and
misunderstanding/misuse of the good advice he has received.

The resulting frustration is understandable. I acknowledge that the
format of this and especially the working kernel lists is simply not
equipped to handle Nick's sort of engagement. The best practice, if
you're frustrated by Nick's emails, is probably to follow the protocol
for feeding trolls -- ie, don't -- even though his motivations are
different from what I'd consider a "real" troll's. You simply cannot
expect him to respond (neuro)typically to your input.

I don't intend to discuss this here anymore, but I really hope the
above can provide a little context to help the community make more
fruitful decisions in response to Nick's questions, or at least temper
your frustrations.

Jason Conklin


[1] http://bit.ly/1odpfrd (Wikipedia: Autism spectrum)

[2] http://bit.ly/1rmgrHg (Wikipedia: Asperger syndrome)

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The issue isn't the emails, it's that I am not custom to working in
a high level programming environment. If someone just explains
what I should not do in a written list of rules, I should be fine :).
Nick

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Here's a task for you, then:
Reread all of our mails from the last few days regarding your behavior,
and extract anything that we said you should or shouldn't do. Write it
down in the form of a list, pin it on your wall and commit to it.

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Sure that's fine.
Nick

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Phillip,
I would like to get back on the list for some work with the btrfs
developers and I was banned.
If someone would allow the ban to be removed, I would find it much
easier as I can email
the right developers with my patches and questions rather then just
trying to get in through
kernel newbies.
Cheers Nick