Re: [PATCH 0/6] doc: replace "alice" and "bob" examples

Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason  [off-list ref] writes:

I suggested in [1] that the "alice" and "bob" examples in our
documentation would be better written without a reference to such
fictional characters, for reasons that have nothing to do with trying
to bend over backwards to avoid any reference to people's gender. It
just makes for better documentation.

I actually do not mind cast of characters with concrete names,
especially when there are more than three parties involved and
having names for them help clarify the description.  But I agree
with you that Alice and Bob should be reserved for situations where
appearance of Eve would reasonably be anticipated, or the use of
these two names become distracting to those who happen to be aware
how these characters are often used in CS literature.

Perhaps s/Alice/Tabby/ and s/Bob/Fido/ or something like that ;-)?

On Wed, 16 Jun 2021, Junio C Hamano wrote:

Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason  [off-list ref] writes:

quoted

I suggested in [1] that the "alice" and "bob" examples in our
documentation would be better written without a reference to such
fictional characters, for reasons that have nothing to do with trying
to bend over backwards to avoid any reference to people's gender. It
just makes for better documentation.

I actually do not mind cast of characters with concrete names,
especially when there are more than three parties involved and
having names for them help clarify the description.  But I agree
with you that Alice and Bob should be reserved for situations where
appearance of Eve would reasonably be anticipated, or the use of
these two names become distracting to those who happen to be aware
how these characters are often used in CS literature.

Perhaps s/Alice/Tabby/ and s/Bob/Fido/ or something like that ;-)?

  i look forward to the renaming of "git" to something more innocuous
and palatable because, somewhere, someone could conceivably,
hypothetically, theoretically take exception to it.

  seriously, can we start a second mailing list where people want to
talk about, you know, version control?

rday

On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 05:30:14AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2021, Junio C Hamano wrote:

quoted

Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason  [off-list ref] writes:

quoted

I suggested in [1] that the "alice" and "bob" examples in our
documentation would be better written without a reference to such
fictional characters, for reasons that have nothing to do with trying
to bend over backwards to avoid any reference to people's gender. It
just makes for better documentation.

I actually do not mind cast of characters with concrete names,
especially when there are more than three parties involved and
having names for them help clarify the description.  But I agree
with you that Alice and Bob should be reserved for situations where
appearance of Eve would reasonably be anticipated, or the use of
these two names become distracting to those who happen to be aware
how these characters are often used in CS literature.

Perhaps s/Alice/Tabby/ and s/Bob/Fido/ or something like that ;-)?

  i look forward to the renaming of "git" to something more innocuous
and palatable because, somewhere, someone could conceivably,
hypothetically, theoretically take exception to it.

  seriously, can we start a second mailing list where people want to
talk about, you know, version control?

Can you please tone down your responses a bit?

One of the points under discussion here is whether those names end up
being confusing to users because of their use in other places (like
cryptographic examples). And I think the comprehensibility of our
documentation is quite relevant to the project.

But even if this were done purely for reasons of gender-neutrality, I
still think your response is inappropriate. You are quite welcome to
argue against such a change, but snarky or dismissive responses aren't
welcome.

(I'm referring to the last paragraph of your other response in this
thread, too. I did find the wikipedia link you sent earlier helpful to
the discussion, and personally I don't find the names confusing at all,
for the reasons it mentioned. But that may not be universal).

-Peff

Junio C Hamano wrote:

Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason  [off-list ref] writes:

quoted

I suggested in [1] that the "alice" and "bob" examples in our
documentation would be better written without a reference to such
fictional characters, for reasons that have nothing to do with trying
to bend over backwards to avoid any reference to people's gender. It
just makes for better documentation.

I actually do not mind cast of characters with concrete names,
especially when there are more than three parties involved and
having names for them help clarify the description.  But I agree
with you that Alice and Bob should be reserved for situations where
appearance of Eve would reasonably be anticipated, or the use of
these two names become distracting to those who happen to be aware
how these characters are often used in CS literature.

Perhaps s/Alice/Tabby/ and s/Bob/Fido/ or something like that ;-)?

I don't know anybody named Tabby or Fido (or at least any human).

Maybe Mary and John, or Linda and James.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

From: Felipe Contreras <redacted>
Sent: June 16, 2021 4:59 PM
To: Junio C Hamano <redacted>; Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <redacted>
Cc: git@vger.kernel.org; Derrick Stolee <redacted>; Jeff King <redacted>; Felipe Contreras <redacted>;
Bagas Sanjaya [off-list ref]; Robert Karszniewicz [off-list ref]; Emily Shaffer [off-list ref]
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/6] doc: replace "alice" and "bob" examples

Junio C Hamano wrote:

quoted

Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason  [off-list ref] writes:

quoted

I suggested in [1] that the "alice" and "bob" examples in our
documentation would be better written without a reference to such
fictional characters, for reasons that have nothing to do with
trying to bend over backwards to avoid any reference to people's
gender. It just makes for better documentation.

I actually do not mind cast of characters with concrete names,
especially when there are more than three parties involved and having
names for them help clarify the description.  But I agree with you
that Alice and Bob should be reserved for situations where appearance
of Eve would reasonably be anticipated, or the use of these two names
become distracting to those who happen to be aware how these
characters are often used in CS literature.

Perhaps s/Alice/Tabby/ and s/Bob/Fido/ or something like that ;-)?

I don't know anybody named Tabby or Fido (or at least any human).

Maybe Mary and John, or Linda and James.

Stevie, Jan, Pat, Chris, Randy, and Sue (if you're a Johnny Cash fan)

I have used some of those in docs.