From: Ido Schimmel <idosch@nvidia.com>
This patchset adds write support to transceiver module EEPROMs by
extending the ethtool netlink API.
Motivation
==========
The kernel can currently dump the contents of module EEPROMs to user
space via the ethtool legacy ioctl API or the new netlink API. These
dumps can then be parsed by ethtool(8) according to the specification
that defines the memory map of the EEPROM. For example, SFF-8636 [1] for
QSFP and CMIS [2] for QSFP-DD.
In addition to read-only elements, these specifications also define
writeable elements that can be used to control the behavior of the
module. For example, controlling whether the module is put in low or
high power mode to limit its power consumption.
The CMIS specification even defines a message exchange mechanism (CDB,
Command Data Block) on top of the module's memory map. This allows the
host to send various commands to the module. For example, to update its
firmware.
Implementation
==============
The legacy ioctl API to dump module EEPROMs required drivers to parse
the contents of the EEPROM in order to understand how many bytes can be
read and dumped to user space. This meant that drivers had to be updated
to support new standards. See [3], for example.
To overcome this limitation, a new netlink-based API to dump module
EEPROMs was merged in kernel 5.13 [4]. With the new API, the kernel is
merely responsible for fetching EEPROM pages. User space then parses the
information, determines if more pages are available and instructs the
kernel to fetch them as well.
Write support for module EEPROMs employs the same approach. User space
instructs the kernel which bytes (page/offset/bank/length) to change and
to which values.
This approach allows the kernel to remain ignorant of the various
standards and avoids the need to constantly update the kernel to support
new registers / commands. More importantly, it allows advanced
functionality such as firmware update to be implemented once in user
space and shared across all the drivers that support read and write
access to module EEPROMs.
The above is achieved by adding a new command to the generic ethtool
netlink family ('ETHTOOL_MSG_MODULE_EEPROM_SET') which shares the same
attributes with the get command ('ETHTOOL_MSG_MODULE_EEPROM_GET'). See
Documentation/networking/ethtool-netlink.rst in patch #3 for detailed
description of the proposed netlink API.
Note that the new command shares the same restrictions with the existing
get command. This means, for example, that no more than 128 bytes can be
written at once and that cross-page write is forbidden. However, some
CMIS compliant modules might support "Auto Paging" which allows hosts to
"write data in large chunks, without the overhead of explicitly
programming Page changes" [2].
At this time, I cannot evaluate the benefits of "Auto Paging" as I do
not have modules that support the feature, nor a host that can write
more than 48 bytes at once. If the current restrictions prove to be a
bottleneck, they can be relaxed in the future.
ethtool(8) support
==================
The corresponding user space patches extend ethtool(8) with the ability
to change the value of a single byte in the module EEPROM. Example:
# ethtool -M swp11 offset 0x80 page 3 bank 0 i2c 0x50 value 0x44
This is in accordance with the '-E' option which allows changing the
value of a single byte in the EEPROM of the network device.
The current command line interface is not user-friendly and also
impractical for functionality that requires many reads and writes such
as firmware update.
Therefore, the plan is to extend ethtool(8) over time with commonly
requested functionality on top of the netlink API.
Testing
=======
Tested by writing to page 3 (User EEPROM) of a QSFP-DD module:
# ethtool -m swp11 offset 0x80 length 3 page 3 bank 0 i2c 0x50
Offset Values
------ ------
0x0080: 00 00 00
# ethtool -M swp11 offset 0x80 page 3 bank 0 i2c 0x50 value 0x44
# ethtool -M swp11 offset 0x81 page 3 bank 0 i2c 0x50 value 0x41
# ethtool -M swp11 offset 0x82 page 3 bank 0 i2c 0x50 value 0x44
# ethtool -m swp11 offset 0x80 length 3 page 3 bank 0 i2c 0x50
Offset Values
------ ------
0x0080: 44 41 44
Patchset overview
=================
Patches #1-#2 refactor the ethtool module EEPROM code to allow sharing
attribute validation between read and write.
Patch #3 adds the actual module EEPROM write implementation.
Patch #4 adds mlxsw support.
[1] https://members.snia.org/document/dl/26418
[2] http://www.qsfp-dd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/CMIS5p0.pdf
[3] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=6af496adcbb8d4656b90a85401eeceb88d520c0d
[4] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=7dc85b599ae17fb705ffae1b7321ace4b3056aeb
Ido Schimmel (4):
ethtool: Extract module EEPROM attributes before validation
ethtool: Split module EEPROM attributes validation to a function
ethtool: Add ability to write to transceiver module EEPROM
mlxsw: core: Add support for module EEPROM write by page
Documentation/networking/ethtool-netlink.rst | 47 +++++
.../net/ethernet/mellanox/mlxsw/core_env.c | 44 ++++
.../net/ethernet/mellanox/mlxsw/core_env.h | 5 +
drivers/net/ethernet/mellanox/mlxsw/minimal.c | 13 ++
.../mellanox/mlxsw/spectrum_ethtool.c | 14 ++
include/linux/ethtool.h | 21 +-
include/uapi/linux/ethtool_netlink.h | 2 +
net/ethtool/eeprom.c | 192 +++++++++++++++---
net/ethtool/netlink.c | 7 +
net/ethtool/netlink.h | 2 +
10 files changed, 316 insertions(+), 31 deletions(-)
--
2.31.1
From: Ido Schimmel <idosch@nvidia.com>
Move the extraction of the attributes before their validation, so that
the validation could be easily split into a different function in the
subsequent patch.
No functional changes intended.
Signed-off-by: Ido Schimmel <idosch@nvidia.com>
Reviewed-by: Jiri Pirko <redacted>
---
net/ethtool/eeprom.c | 7 +++----
1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)
@@ -158,6 +158,9 @@ static int eeprom_parse_request(struct ethnl_req_info *req_info, struct nlattr *request->i2c_address=nla_get_u8(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_I2C_ADDRESS]);request->offset=nla_get_u32(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_OFFSET]);request->length=nla_get_u32(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH]);+request->page=nla_get_u8(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE]);+if(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_BANK])+request->bank=nla_get_u8(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_BANK]);/* The following set of conditions limit the API to only dump 1/2*EEPROMpagewithoutcrossinglowpageboundarylocatedatoffset128.
@@ -165,7 +168,6 @@ static int eeprom_parse_request(struct ethnl_req_info *req_info, struct nlattr **eitherlow128bytesorhigh128bytes.*Forpageshigherthan0onlyhigh128bytesareaccessible.*/-request->page=nla_get_u8(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE]);if(request->page&&request->offset<ETH_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE_LEN){NL_SET_ERR_MSG_ATTR(extack,tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE],"reading from lower half page is allowed for page 0 only");
From: Ido Schimmel <idosch@nvidia.com>
The same validation will be needed for module EEPROM write access in the
subsequent patch, so split it into a function.
Modify the extack messages a bit to not be specific to read access.
No functional changes intended.
Signed-off-by: Ido Schimmel <idosch@nvidia.com>
Reviewed-by: Jiri Pirko <redacted>
---
net/ethtool/eeprom.c | 58 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++------------------
1 file changed, 35 insertions(+), 23 deletions(-)
@@ -144,10 +144,41 @@ static int eeprom_prepare_data(const struct ethnl_req_info *req_base,returnret;}+staticinteeprom_validate(structnlattr**tb,structnetlink_ext_ack*extack)+{+u32offset=nla_get_u32(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_OFFSET]);+u32length=nla_get_u32(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH]);+u8page=nla_get_u8(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE]);++/* The following set of conditions limit the API to only access 1/2+*EEPROMpagewithoutcrossinglowpageboundarylocatedatoffset+*128.Forpageshigherthan0,onlyhigh128bytesareaccessible.+*/+if(page&&offset<ETH_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE_LEN){+NL_SET_ERR_MSG_ATTR(extack,tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE],+"access to lower half page is allowed for page 0 only");+return-EINVAL;+}++if(offset<ETH_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE_LEN&&+offset+length>ETH_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE_LEN){+NL_SET_ERR_MSG_ATTR(extack,tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH],+"crossing half page boundary is illegal");+return-EINVAL;+}elseif(offset+length>ETH_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE_LEN*2){+NL_SET_ERR_MSG_ATTR(extack,tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH],+"crossing page boundary is illegal");+return-EINVAL;+}++return0;+}+staticinteeprom_parse_request(structethnl_req_info*req_info,structnlattr**tb,structnetlink_ext_ack*extack){structeeprom_req_info*request=MODULE_EEPROM_REQINFO(req_info);+interr;if(!tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_OFFSET]||!tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH]||
@@ -162,29 +197,6 @@ static int eeprom_parse_request(struct ethnl_req_info *req_info, struct nlattr *if(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_BANK])request->bank=nla_get_u8(tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_BANK]);-/* The following set of conditions limit the API to only dump 1/2-*EEPROMpagewithoutcrossinglowpageboundarylocatedatoffset128.-*Thismeansusermayonlyrequestdumpsoflengthlimitedto128from-*eitherlow128bytesorhigh128bytes.-*Forpageshigherthan0onlyhigh128bytesareaccessible.-*/-if(request->page&&request->offset<ETH_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE_LEN){-NL_SET_ERR_MSG_ATTR(extack,tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE],-"reading from lower half page is allowed for page 0 only");-return-EINVAL;-}--if(request->offset<ETH_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE_LEN&&-request->offset+request->length>ETH_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE_LEN){-NL_SET_ERR_MSG_ATTR(extack,tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH],-"reading cross half page boundary is illegal");-return-EINVAL;-}elseif(request->offset+request->length>ETH_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE_LEN*2){-NL_SET_ERR_MSG_ATTR(extack,tb[ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH],-"reading cross page boundary is illegal");-return-EINVAL;-}-return0;}
From: Ido Schimmel <idosch@nvidia.com>
In a similar fashion to read access to transceiver module EEPROM by
page, add write access. This allows user space to configure various
registers specified in the transceiver module EEPROM memory map (e.g.,
SFF-8636, CMIS).
In the case of CMIS, this also allows user space to implement various
Command Data Block (CDB) messages for interaction with the module. This
is required for advanced functionality such as firmware update.
The new generic netlink command (i.e., 'ETHTOOL_MSG_MODULE_EEPROM_SET')
is fully described in Documentation/networking/ethtool-netlink.rst.
Note that while the 'ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH' attribute might
seem redundant, it allows the kernel to validate
'ETHTOOL_MSG_MODULE_EEPROM_SET' messages in a similar fashion to
'ETHTOOL_MSG_MODULE_EEPROM_GET' messages. In addition, it adds another
confirmation regarding the number of bytes to write to the module
EEPROM.
Signed-off-by: Ido Schimmel <idosch@nvidia.com>
Reviewed-by: Jiri Pirko <redacted>
---
Documentation/networking/ethtool-netlink.rst | 47 +++++++
include/linux/ethtool.h | 21 ++-
include/uapi/linux/ethtool_netlink.h | 2 +
net/ethtool/eeprom.c | 133 +++++++++++++++++++
net/ethtool/netlink.c | 7 +
net/ethtool/netlink.h | 2 +
6 files changed, 205 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
@@ -212,6 +212,7 @@ Userspace to kernel:``ETHTOOL_MSG_FEC_SET`` set FEC settings``ETHTOOL_MSG_MODULE_EEPROM_GET`` read SFP module EEPROM``ETHTOOL_MSG_STATS_GET`` get standard statistics+``ETHTOOL_MSG_MODULE_EEPROM_SET`` write to SFP module EEPROM ===================================== ================================ Kernel to userspace:
@@ -250,6 +251,7 @@ Kernel to userspace:``ETHTOOL_MSG_FEC_NTF`` FEC settings``ETHTOOL_MSG_MODULE_EEPROM_GET_REPLY`` read SFP module EEPROM``ETHTOOL_MSG_STATS_GET_REPLY`` standard statistics+``ETHTOOL_MSG_MODULE_EEPROM_NTF`` SFP module EEPROM settings ======================================== =================================``GET`` requests are sent by userspace applications to retrieve device
@@ -1477,6 +1479,50 @@ Low and high bounds are inclusive, for example: etherStatsPkts512to1023Octets 512 1023 ============================= ==== ====+MODULE_EEPROM_SET+=================++Write to SFP module EEPROM.+This interface is designed to allow writes of at most 1/2 page at once. This+means only writes of 128 (or less) bytes are allowed, without crossing half+page boundary located at offset 128. For pages other than 0 only high 128 bytes+are accessible.++Request contents:++ ======================================= ====== ==========================+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_HEADER`` nested request header+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_OFFSET`` u32 offset within a page+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH`` u32 amount of bytes to write+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE`` u8 page number+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_BANK`` u8 bank number+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_I2C_ADDRESS`` u8 page I2C address+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_DATA`` binary array of bytes to write+ ======================================= ====== ==========================++The amount of bytes to write encoded in ``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH`` must+match the length of the payload of ``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_DATA``.++If ``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_BANK`` is not specified, bank 0 is assumed.++Upon a successful write, a ``ETHTOOL_MSG_MODULE_EEPROM_NTF`` notification is+sent to user space.++Notification contents:++ ======================================= ====== ==========================+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_HEADER`` nested reply header+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_OFFSET`` u32 offset within a page+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_LENGTH`` u32 amount of bytes written+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_PAGE`` u8 page number+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_BANK`` u8 bank number+``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_I2C_ADDRESS`` u8 page I2C address+ ======================================= ====== ==========================++The notification does not include the ``ETHTOOL_A_MODULE_EEPROM_DATA``+attribute in order to prevent exposing module EEPROM contents to users without+admin privileges.+ Request translation ===================
From: Andrew Lunn <andrew@lunn.ch> Date: 2021-06-23 18:45:04
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 10:59:21AM +0300, Ido Schimmel wrote:
From: Ido Schimmel <idosch@nvidia.com>
This patchset adds write support to transceiver module EEPROMs by
extending the ethtool netlink API.
Motivation
==========
The kernel can currently dump the contents of module EEPROMs to user
space via the ethtool legacy ioctl API or the new netlink API. These
dumps can then be parsed by ethtool(8) according to the specification
that defines the memory map of the EEPROM. For example, SFF-8636 [1] for
QSFP and CMIS [2] for QSFP-DD.
In addition to read-only elements, these specifications also define
writeable elements that can be used to control the behavior of the
module. For example, controlling whether the module is put in low or
high power mode to limit its power consumption.
Hi Ido
So power control is part of the specification? All CMIS devices should
implement it the same.
The CMIS specification even defines a message exchange mechanism (CDB,
Command Data Block) on top of the module's memory map. This allows the
host to send various commands to the module. For example, to update its
firmware.
This approach allows the kernel to remain ignorant of the various
standards and avoids the need to constantly update the kernel to support
new registers / commands. More importantly, it allows advanced
functionality such as firmware update to be implemented once in user
space and shared across all the drivers that support read and write
access to module EEPROMs.
I fear we are opening the door for user space binary blob drivers,
which do much more than just firmware upgrade. You seems to say that
power control is part of the CMIS standard. So we don't need userspace
involved for that. We can implement a library which any MAC driver can
share.
I also wonder if it is safe to perform firmware upgrade from user
space? I've not looked at the code yet, but i assume you only allow
write when the interface is down? Otherwise isn't there a danger you
can brick the SFP if the MAC accesses it at the same time as when an
upgrade is happening?
Do you have other concrete use cases for write from user space?
In general, we don't allow uncontrolled access to hardware from user
space. We add specific, well documented API calls, and expect kernel
drivers to implement them. I don't see why SFPs should be
different. Standardised parts we can implement in common code. None
standard parts we need device/vendor specific code. Which just means
we need drivers following the usual linux conventions, some sort of
bus driver which reads the vendor/device ID from the EEPROM and probes
a driver for the specific SFP.
Andrew
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 08:44:57PM +0200, Andrew Lunn wrote:
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 10:59:21AM +0300, Ido Schimmel wrote:
quoted
From: Ido Schimmel <idosch@nvidia.com>
This patchset adds write support to transceiver module EEPROMs by
extending the ethtool netlink API.
Motivation
==========
The kernel can currently dump the contents of module EEPROMs to user
space via the ethtool legacy ioctl API or the new netlink API. These
dumps can then be parsed by ethtool(8) according to the specification
that defines the memory map of the EEPROM. For example, SFF-8636 [1] for
QSFP and CMIS [2] for QSFP-DD.
In addition to read-only elements, these specifications also define
writeable elements that can be used to control the behavior of the
module. For example, controlling whether the module is put in low or
high power mode to limit its power consumption.
Hi Ido
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the feedback.
So power control is part of the specification?
Yes. See "6.3.2.4 Module Power Mode" in CMIS.
All CMIS devices should implement it the same.
The implementation inside the module will probably differ between
different vendors, but the interface towards the host (Linux) will be
the same as it is standardized by CMIS.
quoted
The CMIS specification even defines a message exchange mechanism (CDB,
Command Data Block) on top of the module's memory map. This allows the
host to send various commands to the module. For example, to update its
firmware.
quoted
This approach allows the kernel to remain ignorant of the various
standards and avoids the need to constantly update the kernel to support
new registers / commands. More importantly, it allows advanced
functionality such as firmware update to be implemented once in user
space and shared across all the drivers that support read and write
access to module EEPROMs.
I fear we are opening the door for user space binary blob drivers,
No need for multiple drivers. The whole point of these standards is that
a single implementation on the host will work across different modules
from different vendors. I expect that ethtool(8) will have an
implementation which other projects can then use as a reference. Similar
to how iproute2 is used as a reference by developers of various
interface managers / routing daemons.
which do much more than just firmware upgrade.
CMIS indeed allows for much more than firmware update. But again, it is
all standardized to ensure a single implementation on the host will
suffice.
You seems to say that power control is part of the CMIS standard. So
we don't need userspace involved for that. We can implement a library
which any MAC driver can share.
I fail to understand this logic. I would understand pushing
functionality into the kernel in order to create an abstraction for user
space over different hardware interfaces from different vendors. This is
not the case here. Nothing is vendor specific. Not to the host vendor
nor to the module vendor.
Pushing all this functionality into the kernel will basically mean
creating an abstraction over an abstraction. Practically, it means
bloating the kernel with several thousands LoC (maybe more) and a lot of
new user APIs which we will never be able to remove. TBH, I cannot
explain to myself what we stand to gain from that.
I also wonder if it is safe to perform firmware upgrade from user
space?
I have yet to write the relevant code in ethtool(8), but it should be
safe. See more below.
I've not looked at the code yet, but i assume you only allow
write when the interface is down?
No. Taking it down will mean needless packet loss for the entire time of
the firmware download process. After the download process, you need to
activate the new image from one of the banks (A/B) via CDB "Run Image"
command, but even that can be hit less. See "HitlessRestart" bit which
can be queried using "Firmware Management Features" command:
"
0: CMD Run Image causes a reset. Traffic is affected.
1: CMD Run Image may reset, but module will do its best to maintain
traffic and management states. Data path functions are not reset.
"
Can be implemented in ethtool(8) using commands such as these:
# ethtool --module-fw-query DEVNAME
# ethtool --module-fw-dl DEVNAME FILENAME
# ethtool --module-fw-run DEVNAME
Just a quick example. Yet to design / implement this functionality.
Wanted to discuss the kernel interface before starting to pile user
space functionality on top.
Otherwise isn't there a danger you can brick the SFP if the MAC
accesses it at the same time as when an upgrade is happening?
No. You download the firmware image to a bank, verify it was downloaded
correctly and then activate the new image (without affecting traffic,
potentially).
Do you have other concrete use cases for write from user space?
The first priority on my list is related to SFF-8636 (QSFP).
Specifically, ability to monitor signal to noise ratio and laser
temperature. This is done via High Page 20h that can monitor up to 24
parameters. Since the number of parameters that can be monitored is much
larger than 24, you need to instruct the module which parameters to
monitor. This is done by writing to the "Param Configuration" table on
this page. See "6.7.2.5 Parameter Configuration Registers".
In general, we don't allow uncontrolled access to hardware from user
space. We add specific, well documented API calls, and expect kernel
drivers to implement them. I don't see why SFPs should be
different. Standardised parts we can implement in common code. None
standard parts we need device/vendor specific code. Which just means
we need drivers following the usual linux conventions, some sort of
bus driver which reads the vendor/device ID from the EEPROM and probes
a driver for the specific SFP.
I think I touched on all these points above. The symmetric GET interface
was implemented following your good advice [1] from a year ago in order
to avoid two parsers, in user space and kernel. Creating a netlink API
for every little writeable element in these standards will not only mean
that the kernel will need to be intimately familiar with these memory
maps, but also that it will need to be constantly patched with new user
APIs which we will never be able to remove.
Given the above is entirely avoidable with a single portable
implementation in ethtool(8), I do not think we should go with a kernel
implementation.
[1] https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/20200630002159.GA597495@lunn.ch/
From: Andrew Lunn <andrew@lunn.ch> Date: 2021-06-24 20:27:18
I fail to understand this logic. I would understand pushing
functionality into the kernel in order to create an abstraction for user
space over different hardware interfaces from different vendors. This is
not the case here. Nothing is vendor specific. Not to the host vendor
nor to the module vendor.
Hi Ido
My worry is, we are opening up an ideal vector for user space drivers
for SFPs. And worse still, closed source user space drivers. We have
had great success with switchdev, over a hundred supported switches,
partially because we have always pushed back against kAPIs which allow
user space driver, closed binary blobs etc.
We have the choice here. We can add a write method to the kAPI, add
open source code to Ethtool using that API, and just accept people are
going to abuse the API for all sorts of horrible things in user space.
Or we can add more restrictive kAPIs, put more code in the kernel, and
probably limit user space doing horrible things. Maybe as a side
effect, SFP vendors contribute some open source code, rather than
binary blobs?
I tend to disagree about adding kAPIs which allow write. But i would
like to hear other peoples opinions on this.
Andrew
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 10:27:13PM +0200, Andrew Lunn wrote:
quoted
I fail to understand this logic. I would understand pushing
functionality into the kernel in order to create an abstraction for user
space over different hardware interfaces from different vendors. This is
not the case here. Nothing is vendor specific. Not to the host vendor
nor to the module vendor.
Hi Ido
Hi Andrew,
My worry is, we are opening up an ideal vector for user space drivers
for SFPs. And worse still, closed source user space drivers. We have
had great success with switchdev, over a hundred supported switches,
partially because we have always pushed back against kAPIs which allow
user space driver, closed binary blobs etc.
I don't think it's a correct comparison. Switch ASICs don't have a
standardized interface towards the host. It is therefore essential that
the kernel will abstract these differences to user space.
We have the choice here. We can add a write method to the kAPI, add
open source code to Ethtool using that API, and just accept people are
going to abuse the API for all sorts of horrible things in user space.
Or we can add more restrictive kAPIs, put more code in the kernel, and
probably limit user space doing horrible things. Maybe as a side
effect, SFP vendors contribute some open source code, rather than
binary blobs?
I didn't see any code or binary blobs from SFP vendors and I'm not sure
how they can provide these either. Their goal is - I believe - to sell
as much modules as possible to what the standard calls "systems
manufactures" / "system integrators". Therefore, they cannot make any
assumptions about the I2C connectivity (whether to the ASIC or the CPU),
the operating system running on the host and the user interface (ioctl /
netlink etc).
Given all these moving parts, I don't see how they can provide any
tooling. It is in their best interest to simply follow the standard and
make the tooling a problem of the "systems manufactures" / "system
integrators". In fact, the user who requested this functionality claims:
"the cable vendors don't develop the tools to burn the FW since the
vendors claim that the CMIS is supported". The user also confirmed that
another provider "is able to burn the FW for the cables from different
vendors".
I tend to disagree about adding kAPIs which allow write. But i would
like to hear other peoples opinions on this.
Andrew
From: Andrew Lunn <andrew@lunn.ch> Date: 2021-06-27 15:12:36
On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 01:33:13PM +0300, Ido Schimmel wrote:
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 10:27:13PM +0200, Andrew Lunn wrote:
quoted
quoted
I fail to understand this logic. I would understand pushing
functionality into the kernel in order to create an abstraction for user
space over different hardware interfaces from different vendors. This is
not the case here. Nothing is vendor specific. Not to the host vendor
nor to the module vendor.
Hi Ido
Hi Andrew,
quoted
My worry is, we are opening up an ideal vector for user space drivers
for SFPs. And worse still, closed source user space drivers. We have
had great success with switchdev, over a hundred supported switches,
partially because we have always pushed back against kAPIs which allow
user space driver, closed binary blobs etc.
I don't think it's a correct comparison. Switch ASICs don't have a
standardized interface towards the host. It is therefore essential that
the kernel will abstract these differences to user space.
quoted
We have the choice here. We can add a write method to the kAPI, add
open source code to Ethtool using that API, and just accept people are
going to abuse the API for all sorts of horrible things in user space.
Or we can add more restrictive kAPIs, put more code in the kernel, and
probably limit user space doing horrible things. Maybe as a side
effect, SFP vendors contribute some open source code, rather than
binary blobs?
I didn't see any code or binary blobs from SFP vendors and I'm not sure
how they can provide these either. Their goal is - I believe - to sell
as much modules as possible to what the standard calls "systems
manufactures" / "system integrators". Therefore, they cannot make any
assumptions about the I2C connectivity (whether to the ASIC or the CPU),
the operating system running on the host and the user interface (ioctl /
netlink etc).
Given all these moving parts, I don't see how they can provide any
tooling. It is in their best interest to simply follow the standard and
make the tooling a problem of the "systems manufactures" / "system
integrators". In fact, the user who requested this functionality claims:
"the cable vendors don't develop the tools to burn the FW since the
vendors claim that the CMIS is supported". The user also confirmed that
another provider "is able to burn the FW for the cables from different
vendors".
Hi Ido
This API is not just about CMIS, it covers any I2C connected SFP
device. I'm more involved in the lower end, 1G, 2.5G and 10G. Devices
in this category seem to be very bad a following the standards. GPON
is especially bad, and GPON manufactures don't seem to care their
devices don't follow the standard, they assume the Customer Premises
Equipment is going to run software to work around whatever issues
their specific GPON has, maybe they provide driver code? The API you
are adding would be ideal for putting that driver in user space, as a
binary blob. That is going to make it harder for us to open up the
many millions of CPE used in FTTH. And there are people attempting to
do that.
If devices following CMIS really are closely following the standard
that is great. We should provide tooling to do firmware upgrade. But
at the same time, we don't want to aid those who go against the
standards and do their own thing. And it sounds like in the CMIS
world, we might have the power to encourage vendors to follow CMIS,
"Look, firmware upgrade just works for the competitors devices, why
should i use your device when it does not work?"
I just want to make sure we are considering the full range of devices
this new API will cover. From little ARM systems with 1G copper and
FTTH fibre ports through to big TOR systems with large number of 100G
ports. If CMIS is well support by vendors, putting the code into the
kernel, as a loadable module, might be the better solution for the
whole range of devices the kernel needs to support.
Andrew
On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 05:12:26PM +0200, Andrew Lunn wrote:
This API is not just about CMIS, it covers any I2C connected SFP
device. I'm more involved in the lower end, 1G, 2.5G and 10G. Devices
in this category seem to be very bad a following the standards. GPON
is especially bad, and GPON manufactures don't seem to care their
devices don't follow the standard, they assume the Customer Premises
Equipment is going to run software to work around whatever issues
their specific GPON has, maybe they provide driver code? The API you
are adding would be ideal for putting that driver in user space, as a
binary blob. That is going to make it harder for us to open up the
many millions of CPE used in FTTH. And there are people attempting to
do that.
If devices following CMIS really are closely following the standard
that is great. We should provide tooling to do firmware upgrade. But
at the same time, we don't want to aid those who go against the
standards and do their own thing. And it sounds like in the CMIS
world, we might have the power to encourage vendors to follow CMIS,
"Look, firmware upgrade just works for the competitors devices, why
should i use your device when it does not work?"
I just want to make sure we are considering the full range of devices
this new API will cover. From little ARM systems with 1G copper and
FTTH fibre ports through to big TOR systems with large number of 100G
ports. If CMIS is well support by vendors, putting the code into the
kernel, as a loadable module, might be the better solution for the
whole range of devices the kernel needs to support.
If the goal is to limit what user space can do, then putting all the
code in the kernel and adding an ever-growing number of restrictive user
APIs is not the only way.
Even with the proposed approach, the kernel sits in the middle between
the module and user space. As such, it can maintain an "allow list" that
only allows access to modules with a specific memory map (CMIS and
SFF-8636 for now) and only to a subset of the pages which are
standardized by the specifications.
From: Andrew Lunn <andrew@lunn.ch> Date: 2021-06-29 13:47:37
Even with the proposed approach, the kernel sits in the middle between
the module and user space. As such, it can maintain an "allow list" that
only allows access to modules with a specific memory map (CMIS and
SFF-8636 for now) and only to a subset of the pages which are
standardized by the specifications.
Hi Ido
This seems like a reasonable compromise. But i would go further. Limit
it to just what is needed for firmware upgrade.
Andrew
From: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org> Date: 2021-06-29 17:27:12
On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 22:38:27 +0300 Ido Schimmel wrote:
quoted
I also wonder if it is safe to perform firmware upgrade from user
space?
I have yet to write the relevant code in ethtool(8), but it should be
safe. See more below.
What's unclear to me is what difference does it make whether the code is
in kernel or in ethtool.git. If modules follow the standard the code
churn will be low. And we have to type the code up anyway it seems it
doesn't matter where it lies.
Where it does matter is if one wants to reuse existing user space built
on top of raw read/write interfaces.
IOW it shouldn't matter if we put the code in the kernel or user space
from effort perspective, but the latter is more risky.
You mention some limited sensor resources, isn't this exactly the
resource management the kernel is supposed to perform?
On Tuesday 29 June 2021 15:47:33 Andrew Lunn wrote:
quoted
Even with the proposed approach, the kernel sits in the middle between
the module and user space. As such, it can maintain an "allow list" that
only allows access to modules with a specific memory map (CMIS and
SFF-8636 for now) and only to a subset of the pages which are
standardized by the specifications.
Hi Ido
This seems like a reasonable compromise. But i would go further. Limit
it to just what is needed for firmware upgrade.
Andrew
Hello! If this is just because for CMIS firmware upgrade, what about
rather providing kernel driver for CMIS firmware upgrade?
On Sunday 27 June 2021 13:33:13 Ido Schimmel wrote:
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 10:27:13PM +0200, Andrew Lunn wrote:
quoted
We have the choice here. We can add a write method to the kAPI, add
open source code to Ethtool using that API, and just accept people are
going to abuse the API for all sorts of horrible things in user space.
Or we can add more restrictive kAPIs, put more code in the kernel, and
probably limit user space doing horrible things. Maybe as a side
effect, SFP vendors contribute some open source code, rather than
binary blobs?
I didn't see any code or binary blobs from SFP vendors and I'm not sure
how they can provide these either. Their goal is - I believe - to sell
as much modules as possible to what the standard calls "systems
manufactures" / "system integrators". Therefore, they cannot make any
assumptions about the I2C connectivity (whether to the ASIC or the CPU),
the operating system running on the host and the user interface (ioctl /
netlink etc).
Hello! This is really happening in GPON world. Most GPON SFP modules are
working only in few devices with SFP cages. And it is either because
GPON SFP module vendor provided to vendor of device with SFP cage how to
"hack", initialize and use that GPON module properly or because we have
figured out how particular GPON modules violate SFF standards and added
special quirks per SFP module or per chipset in SFP module.
And the other thing which is happening. If vendor of GPON SFP module is
the same as vendor of device with SFP cage then it is doing everything
to ensure that only its GPON SFP modules would work in its devices. Or
to ensure that its OLT station (opposite end of GPON client SFP module)
would link only with its branded GPON SFP modules.
Classic vendor lockin. If ISP is using OLT station from vendor A then A
wants that you cannot use GPON SFP modules from vendor B on that
network.
You said that vendor goal is to sell as much modules as possible. Seem
that this is truth and vendors are doing it by above vendor lockin
strategy only.
So at the end I really do not like raw RW access to SFP EEPROM. This
just opens a new door for vendor lockin and vendor blob strategy.
And the last thing is that rewriting EEPROM on arbitrary SFP module may
lead to total damage of SFP. Specially on SFPs with "computer inside"
where parts of (critical) memory is shadowed in SFP EEPROM space.