# Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - List: netdev - 26 messages, 13 authors - Page: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1123003/t ## Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: John W. Linville \ - Date: 2008-07-09 19:38:21 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1123003.md ```text The third Linux Wireless mini-summit will occur on Tuesday July 22, 2008 in Ottawa, just before the Ottawa Linux Symposium. OLS is generously supporting Linux mini-summits by providing the room and projector (http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/minisummits.php). Several vendors are supporting the event by sponsoring their own employees to attend, and Canonical and Intel have both helped with travel funds for key community participants as well. Although it is already a bit late, I would like to re-open discussions on our agenda for the meeting. Based on current upstream topics and those persons whom I expect to be attending, I have cobbled together an agenda proposal below. Please review it and feel free to suggest amendments or alterations, or to elaborate or ask questions about my proposed schedule of topics. I look forward to seeing many of you in Ottawa! John P.S. If you intend to attend the event in Ottawa, please send me a private reply to this note -- even if you believe that I already know that you are coming! :-) --- 3rd Linux Wireless Summit Ottawa, Canada 22 July 2008 Proposed Agenda 0830 Meet & Greet Introductions and opening remarks 0900 Status Reports Overview of where things stand today - 802.11n - QoS/Multiqueue - Mesh mode (802.11s) - RF kill 1015 Break 1100 Vendor/Distro Round Table Representatives from hardware vendors and Linux distributions discuss issues around cooperation between themselves and the development community, what we are doing well, and what problems we are causing for each other. 1200 Lunch/Break (sorry, no funding) 1300 Current Work Short presentations/discussions about work in progress - encrypted management frames (802.11w) - regulatory enforcement (802.11d, CRDA) - virtual hardware (mac80211_hwsim) 1445 Break 1500 Future work Short presentations/discussions about work that has previously been suggested or requested - cfg80211/nl80211 - time to push to replace WEXT? - tool enhancements and/or userland support? - power management (suspend/resume) - lib80211 (code sharing w/ full MAC drivers) - rate scaling algorithms - minstrel - others? - userland MLME - userland driver implementation 1645 Break 1700 Maintainence Issues Round table discussion of issues related to maintenance of the wireless trees - trivial/cleanup patches - testing or other requirements? - should they have lower priority? - should they require ACKs from primary author? - submissions to -stable - who should drive it? - what policies? - rate scaling algs - driver-specific ok? what limitations? - build policies (part of mac80211.ko?) - questions/suggestions/complaints 1800 Dinner/Break (sorry, no funding) 2000 BoF/Break-out Sessions Impromptu and/or unscheduled discussions as desired by group participants -- John W. Linville linville-2XuSBdqkA4R54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Tomas Winkler \ - Date: 2008-07-10 00:14:08 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1123165.md ```text On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 10:09 PM, John W. Linville [ref] wrote: > The third Linux Wireless mini-summit will occur on Tuesday July 22, > 2008 in Ottawa, just before the Ottawa Linux Symposium. OLS is > generously supporting Linux mini-summits by providing the room and > projector (http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/minisummits.php). > Several vendors are supporting the event by sponsoring their own > employees to attend, and Canonical and Intel have both helped with > travel funds for key community participants as well. > > Although it is already a bit late, I would like to re-open discussions > on our agenda for the meeting. Based on current upstream topics and > those persons whom I expect to be attending, I have cobbled together > an agenda proposal below. Please review it and feel free to suggest > amendments or alterations, or to elaborate or ask questions about my > proposed schedule of topics. > > I look forward to seeing many of you in Ottawa! One more topic would be probably power management/power save - connection to system power/power supply (Battery/AC) ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Mark Ryden \ - Date: 2008-07-10 06:42:12 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1123244.md ```text Hello, Linux wireless is, without any doubt, a very important subject. Many people show interest in it. It is good to hear that the third Linux Wireless mini-summit will occur at OLS, which will give opportunity to many people (which some of them don't know much about linux wireless) to attend it (whereas the two last wireless mini-summits were not part of OLS, as far as I know). I want to add that It would be great if part of it (or hopefully, all of it) will be videoed and put on the web. I am sure that many (including me) will be glad to watch it. I am sure that making an effort like this is important and is of interest for the linux wireless community. Regards, Mark Ryden On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 10:09 PM, John W. Linville [ref] wrote: > The third Linux Wireless mini-summit will occur on Tuesday July 22, > 2008 in Ottawa, just before the Ottawa Linux Symposium. OLS is > generously supporting Linux mini-summits by providing the room and > projector (http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/minisummits.php). > Several vendors are supporting the event by sponsoring their own > employees to attend, and Canonical and Intel have both helped with > travel funds for key community participants as well. > > Although it is already a bit late, I would like to re-open discussions > on our agenda for the meeting. Based on current upstream topics and > those persons whom I expect to be attending, I have cobbled together > an agenda proposal below. Please review it and feel free to suggest > amendments or alterations, or to elaborate or ask questions about my > proposed schedule of topics. > > I look forward to seeing many of you in Ottawa! > > John > > P.S. If you intend to attend the event in Ottawa, please send me a > private reply to this note -- even if you believe that I already know > that you are coming! :-) > > --- > > 3rd Linux Wireless Summit > Ottawa, Canada > 22 July 2008 > > Proposed Agenda > > 0830 Meet & Greet > > Introductions and opening remarks > > 0900 Status Reports > > Overview of where things stand today > > - 802.11n > > - QoS/Multiqueue > > - Mesh mode (802.11s) > > - RF kill > > 1015 Break > > 1100 Vendor/Distro Round Table > > Representatives from hardware vendors and Linux distributions > discuss issues around cooperation between themselves and the > development community, what we are doing well, and what problems we > are causing for each other. > > 1200 Lunch/Break (sorry, no funding) > > 1300 Current Work > > Short presentations/discussions about work in progress > > - encrypted management frames (802.11w) > > - regulatory enforcement (802.11d, CRDA) > > - virtual hardware (mac80211_hwsim) > > 1445 Break > > 1500 Future work > > Short presentations/discussions about work that has previously > been suggested or requested > > - cfg80211/nl80211 > - time to push to replace WEXT? > - tool enhancements and/or userland support? > > - power management (suspend/resume) > > - lib80211 (code sharing w/ full MAC drivers) > > - rate scaling algorithms > - minstrel > - others? > > - userland MLME > > - userland driver implementation > > 1645 Break > > 1700 Maintainence Issues > > Round table discussion of issues related to maintenance of > the wireless trees > > - trivial/cleanup patches > - testing or other requirements? > - should they have lower priority? > - should they require ACKs from primary author? > > - submissions to -stable > - who should drive it? > - what policies? > > - rate scaling algs > - driver-specific ok? what limitations? > - build policies (part of mac80211.ko?) > > - questions/suggestions/complaints > > 1800 Dinner/Break (sorry, no funding) > > 2000 BoF/Break-out Sessions > > Impromptu and/or unscheduled discussions as desired by group > participants > > -- > John W. Linville > linville-2XuSBdqkA4R54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe netdev" in > the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Ron Rindjunsky \ - Date: 2008-07-10 06:52:54 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1123245.md ```text > > > The third Linux Wireless mini-summit will occur on Tuesday July 22, > > 2008 in Ottawa, just before the Ottawa Linux Symposium. OLS is > > generously supporting Linux mini-summits by providing the room and > > projector (http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/minisummits.php). > > Several vendors are supporting the event by sponsoring their own > > employees to attend, and Canonical and Intel have both helped with > > travel funds for key community participants as well. > > > > Although it is already a bit late, I would like to re-open discussions > > on our agenda for the meeting. Based on current upstream topics and > > those persons whom I expect to be attending, I have cobbled together > > an agenda proposal below. Please review it and feel free to suggest > > amendments or alterations, or to elaborate or ask questions about my > > proposed schedule of topics. > > > > I look forward to seeing many of you in Ottawa! > > One more topic would be probably > power management/power save - connection to system power/power supply > (Battery/AC) brief discussion about AP mode current and future plans would be appreciated, maybe as part of the MLME topic. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Holger Schurig \ - Date: 2008-07-10 07:42:24 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1123269.md ```text Suspend/Resume? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Stefanik Gábor \ - Date: 2008-07-10 16:12:48 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1123456.md ```text On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 9:09 PM, John W. Linville [ref] wrote: > The third Linux Wireless mini-summit will occur on Tuesday July 22, > 2008 in Ottawa, just before the Ottawa Linux Symposium. OLS is > generously supporting Linux mini-summits by providing the room and > projector (http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/minisummits.php). > Several vendors are supporting the event by sponsoring their own > employees to attend, and Canonical and Intel have both helped with > travel funds for key community participants as well. > > Although it is already a bit late, I would like to re-open discussions > on our agenda for the meeting. Based on current upstream topics and > those persons whom I expect to be attending, I have cobbled together > an agenda proposal below. Please review it and feel free to suggest > amendments or alterations, or to elaborate or ask questions about my > proposed schedule of topics. > > I look forward to seeing many of you in Ottawa! > > John > > P.S. If you intend to attend the event in Ottawa, please send me a > private reply to this note -- even if you believe that I already know > that you are coming! :-) > > --- > > 3rd Linux Wireless Summit > Ottawa, Canada > 22 July 2008 > > Proposed Agenda > > 0830 Meet & Greet > > Introductions and opening remarks > > 0900 Status Reports > > Overview of where things stand today > > - 802.11n > > - QoS/Multiqueue > > - Mesh mode (802.11s) > > - RF kill > > 1015 Break > > 1100 Vendor/Distro Round Table > > Representatives from hardware vendors and Linux distributions > discuss issues around cooperation between themselves and the > development community, what we are doing well, and what problems we > are causing for each other. > > 1200 Lunch/Break (sorry, no funding) > > 1300 Current Work > > Short presentations/discussions about work in progress > > - encrypted management frames (802.11w) > > - regulatory enforcement (802.11d, CRDA) > > - virtual hardware (mac80211_hwsim) > > 1445 Break > > 1500 Future work > > Short presentations/discussions about work that has previously > been suggested or requested > > - cfg80211/nl80211 > - time to push to replace WEXT? > - tool enhancements and/or userland support? > > - power management (suspend/resume) > > - lib80211 (code sharing w/ full MAC drivers) > > - rate scaling algorithms > - minstrel > - others? > > - userland MLME > > - userland driver implementation > > 1645 Break > > 1700 Maintainence Issues > > Round table discussion of issues related to maintenance of > the wireless trees > > - trivial/cleanup patches > - testing or other requirements? > - should they have lower priority? > - should they require ACKs from primary author? > > - submissions to -stable > - who should drive it? > - what policies? > > - rate scaling algs > - driver-specific ok? what limitations? > - build policies (part of mac80211.ko?) > > - questions/suggestions/complaints > > 1800 Dinner/Break (sorry, no funding) > > 2000 BoF/Break-out Sessions > > Impromptu and/or unscheduled discussions as desired by group > participants > > -- > John W. Linville > linville-2XuSBdqkA4R54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in > the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Some other topics which might be of interest/good to include: - New chipsets needing drivers (SiS 16x, Marvell, etc.) - Radiotap enhancements - Userspace MLME: Plans and status -- Vista: [V]iruses, [I]ntruders, [S]pyware, [T]rojans and [A]dware. :-) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Michael Buesch \ - Date: 2008-07-10 16:16:21 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1123457.md ```text On Thursday 10 July 2008 18:12:32 Stefanik Gábor wrote: > Some other topics which might be of interest/good to include: > - New chipsets needing drivers (SiS 16x, Marvell, etc.) I have no idea what to discuss about non-existing drivers, really. Something like: "Do we need that driver? Everyone votes YES and is happy"? > - Radiotap enhancements What radiotap enhancements specifically? If it's just a field or a bit to add, just mail the radiotap people. I think there's no need to discuss that (except for with the radiotap people on their mailinglist). > - Userspace MLME: Plans and status Already on the list. -- Greetings Michael. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Inaky Perez-Gonzalez \ - Date: 2008-07-10 18:55:10 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1123586.md ```text On Wednesday 09 July 2008, John W. Linville wrote: > The third Linux Wireless mini-summit will occur on Tuesday July 22, > 2008 in Ottawa, just before the Ottawa Linux Symposium. OLS is > generously supporting Linux mini-summits by providing the room and > projector (http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/minisummits.php). > Several vendors are supporting the event by sponsoring their own > employees to attend, and Canonical and Intel have both helped with > travel funds for key community participants as well. > > Although it is already a bit late, I would like to re-open discussions > on our agenda for the meeting. Based on current upstream topics and > those persons whom I expect to be attending, I have cobbled together > an agenda proposal below. Please review it and feel free to suggest > amendments or alterations, or to elaborate or ask questions about my > proposed schedule of topics. Please add a note about WiMAX. We'd like to give a quick intro to the technology and the infrastructure work we are doing for it. -- Inaky -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Guy Cohen \ - Date: 2008-07-14 15:05:31 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1124893.md ```text I think that probably the most burning topics were a little diminished in our agenda, and should be put higher: - cfg80211/nl80211 - much of the current wext begins to fall behind the emerging capabilities of the mac80211 and moreover - from future abilities and needs of future fullmac devices. The functionality and ABI to userspace must be finalized as soon as possible. The status of this is very unclear and should be treated more thoroughly, and it seems it can't be shared with 5 other topics in less than 2 hours. - fullmac support - seems to be very relevant in the next couple of years with the integration of wifi into low power devices running linux. I think that these two topics should take precedence over other topics that although important consume more time in the agenda, and are currently less likely to have impact on the average users such as 11s and 11w. it would be good if these topics will get substantial time slot in the agenda. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Guy Cohen \ - Date: 2008-07-14 15:43:42 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1124904.md ```text I think that probably the most burning topics were a little diminished in our agenda, and should be put higher: - cfg80211/nl80211 - much of the current wext begins to fall behind the emerging capabilities of the mac80211 and moreover - from future abilities and needs of future fullmac devices. The functionality and ABI to userspace must be finalized as soon as possible. The status of this is very unclear and should be treated more thoroughly, and it seems it can't be shared with 5 other topics in less than 2 hours. - fullmac support - seems to be very relevant in the next couple of years with the integration of wifi into low power devices running linux. I think that these two topics should take precedence over other topics that although important consume more time in the agenda, and are currently less likely to have impact on the average users such as 11s and 11w. it would be good if these topics will get substantial time slot in the agenda. ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Dan Williams \ - Date: 2008-07-15 17:18:36 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1125566.md ```text On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 18:15 +0200, Michael Buesch wrote: > On Thursday 10 July 2008 18:12:32 Stefanik Gábor wrote: > > Some other topics which might be of interest/good to include: > > - New chipsets needing drivers (SiS 16x, Marvell, etc.) > > I have no idea what to discuss about non-existing drivers, really. > Something like: "Do we need that driver? Everyone votes YES and is happy"? Maybe during the week we could organize some hackfests to work on the Marvell/SiS/etc mac80211 drivers? Everyone bring their favorite non-working Marvell 88w83xx card and we make mrv8k our bitch or something like that. Dan > > - Radiotap enhancements > > What radiotap enhancements specifically? If it's just a field or a bit > to add, just mail the radiotap people. I think there's no need to discuss that > (except for with the radiotap people on their mailinglist). > > > - Userspace MLME: Plans and status > > Already on the list. > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Nicolas Pitre \ - Date: 2008-07-15 17:32:09 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1125575.md ```text On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Dan Williams wrote: > On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 18:15 +0200, Michael Buesch wrote: > > On Thursday 10 July 2008 18:12:32 Stefanik Gábor wrote: > > > Some other topics which might be of interest/good to include: > > > - New chipsets needing drivers (SiS 16x, Marvell, etc.) > > > > I have no idea what to discuss about non-existing drivers, really. > > Something like: "Do we need that driver? Everyone votes YES and is happy"? > > Maybe during the week we could organize some hackfests to work on the > Marvell/SiS/etc mac80211 drivers? Everyone bring their favorite > non-working Marvell 88w83xx card and we make mrv8k our bitch or > something like that. FYI... Lennert Buytenhek and I are writing a GPL driver for mv8300 class of Marvell WIFI chips right now, present and future versions. This is Marvell work as we work for Marvell. I have access to firmware sources, etc. but obviously cannot share them. We both will be in Ottawa next week. Nicolas ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Dan Williams \ - Date: 2008-07-15 18:01:14 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1125593.md ```text On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 13:31 -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Dan Williams wrote: > > > On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 18:15 +0200, Michael Buesch wrote: > > > On Thursday 10 July 2008 18:12:32 Stefanik Gábor wrote: > > > > Some other topics which might be of interest/good to include: > > > > - New chipsets needing drivers (SiS 16x, Marvell, etc.) > > > > > > I have no idea what to discuss about non-existing drivers, really. > > > Something like: "Do we need that driver? Everyone votes YES and is happy"? > > > > Maybe during the week we could organize some hackfests to work on the > > Marvell/SiS/etc mac80211 drivers? Everyone bring their favorite > > non-working Marvell 88w83xx card and we make mrv8k our bitch or > > something like that. > > FYI... > > Lennert Buytenhek and I are writing a GPL driver for mv8300 class of > Marvell WIFI chips right now, present and future versions. This is > Marvell work as we work for Marvell. I have access to firmware sources, > etc. but obviously cannot share them. > > We both will be in Ottawa next week. Great! Lets definitely sit down and talk then. There is already some GPL-ed source code for 83xx chips out there but it always used net80211, not mac80211. So the mrv8k effort is meant to write a mac80211 driver for 8310/8335/etc and perhaps TopDog chips too since they don't seem that much different from a driver perspective. Some of the issues with the current Marvell 83xx GPL drivers that have gotten out are (a) code style, (b) lots of commented out stuff that's never used, (c) OS abstraction that's unnecessary on Linux, (d) doesn't use mac80211, and (e) uses private ioctls. So hopefully you're writing a new 83xx driver from scratch :) We cleaned up a lot of stuff for the OLPC 8388 libertas driver, but unfortunately we never were able to get the Marvell 8388 team onboard, and so they just went off and kept working on their driver and didn't really move the upstream libertas driver forward at all. Dan -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Dan Williams \ - Date: 2008-07-15 18:04:54 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1125595.md ```text On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 13:58 -0400, Dan Williams wrote: > On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 13:31 -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Dan Williams wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 18:15 +0200, Michael Buesch wrote: > > > > On Thursday 10 July 2008 18:12:32 Stefanik Gábor wrote: > > > > > Some other topics which might be of interest/good to include: > > > > > - New chipsets needing drivers (SiS 16x, Marvell, etc.) > > > > > > > > I have no idea what to discuss about non-existing drivers, really. > > > > Something like: "Do we need that driver? Everyone votes YES and is happy"? > > > > > > Maybe during the week we could organize some hackfests to work on the > > > Marvell/SiS/etc mac80211 drivers? Everyone bring their favorite > > > non-working Marvell 88w83xx card and we make mrv8k our bitch or > > > something like that. > > > > FYI... > > > > Lennert Buytenhek and I are writing a GPL driver for mv8300 class of > > Marvell WIFI chips right now, present and future versions. This is > > Marvell work as we work for Marvell. I have access to firmware sources, > > etc. but obviously cannot share them. > > > > We both will be in Ottawa next week. > > Great! Lets definitely sit down and talk then. There is already some > GPL-ed source code for 83xx chips out there but it always used net80211, > not mac80211. So the mrv8k effort is meant to write a mac80211 driver > for 8310/8335/etc and perhaps TopDog chips too since they don't seem > that much different from a driver perspective. > > Some of the issues with the current Marvell 83xx GPL drivers that have > gotten out are (a) code style, (b) lots of commented out stuff that's > never used, (c) OS abstraction that's unnecessary on Linux, (d) doesn't > use mac80211, and (e) uses private ioctls. So hopefully you're writing > a new 83xx driver from scratch :) > > We cleaned up a lot of stuff for the OLPC 8388 libertas driver, but > unfortunately we never were able to get the Marvell 8388 team onboard, > and so they just went off and kept working on their driver and didn't > really move the upstream libertas driver forward at all. Forgot to finish this last bit... So hopefully that won't happen here, since this would be pretty much the same situation up to this point. Ideally you can get the internal Marvell developers onboard so we're all working on essentially the same bits, exactly like Intel has done. Yeah, they develop on private trees internally but at the end of the day, their base code is the same upstream base code everyone else uses. Dan -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: John W. Linville \ - Date: 2008-07-15 18:07:39 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1125599.md ```text On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 06:05:13PM +0300, Guy Cohen wrote: > I think that probably the most burning topics were a little diminished > in our agenda, and should be put higher: > - cfg80211/nl80211 - much of the current wext begins to fall behind > the emerging capabilities of the mac80211 and moreover - from future > abilities and needs of future fullmac devices. The functionality and > ABI to userspace must be finalized as soon as possible. The status of > this is very unclear and should be treated more thoroughly, and it > seems it can't be shared with 5 other topics in less than 2 hours. FWIW, I listed this one first under Future Work. > - fullmac support - seems to be very relevant in the next couple of > years with the integration of wifi into low power devices running > linux. Not sure exactly what you mean with this one. Are you talking about the lib80211 line item? Or enhancements to the mac80211 component to support full(er) MAC designs? > I think that these two topics should take precedence over other topics > that although important consume more time in the agenda, and are > currently less likely to have impact on the average users such as 11s > and 11w. > > it would be good if these topics will get substantial time slot in the agenda. There are lots of items listed, and I'm not sure we will cover all of them. If there are any that you would like to suggest be dropped completely then please do so. That said, I don't think we have enough time for real working sessions on Tuesday. I think it would be better just to touch on a variety of topics that can benefit from some face-to-face discussions. >From that perspective, I think some status reports and some brief proposals are most appropriate. I'll post a revised (mostly just augmented) agenda proposal today. John -- John W. Linville linville@tuxdriver.com ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Nicolas Pitre \ - Date: 2008-07-15 18:14:32 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1125603.md ```text On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Dan Williams wrote: > Some of the issues with the current Marvell 83xx GPL drivers that have > gotten out are (a) code style, (b) lots of commented out stuff that's > never used, (c) OS abstraction that's unnecessary on Linux, (d) doesn't > use mac80211, and (e) uses private ioctls. So hopefully you're writing > a new 83xx driver from scratch :) Yes, this is all from scratch. The objective for this work is to be "mainlinable". > We cleaned up a lot of stuff for the OLPC 8388 libertas driver, but > unfortunately we never were able to get the Marvell 8388 team onboard, > and so they just went off and kept working on their driver and didn't > really move the upstream libertas driver forward at all. Libertas is a rather different beast. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Dan Williams \ - Date: 2008-07-15 18:17:40 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1125606.md ```text On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 13:42 -0400, John W. Linville wrote: > On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 06:05:13PM +0300, Guy Cohen wrote: > > I think that probably the most burning topics were a little diminished > > in our agenda, and should be put higher: > > - cfg80211/nl80211 - much of the current wext begins to fall behind > > the emerging capabilities of the mac80211 and moreover - from future > > abilities and needs of future fullmac devices. The functionality and > > ABI to userspace must be finalized as soon as possible. The status of > > this is very unclear and should be treated more thoroughly, and it > > seems it can't be shared with 5 other topics in less than 2 hours. > > FWIW, I listed this one first under Future Work. > > > - fullmac support - seems to be very relevant in the next couple of > > years with the integration of wifi into low power devices running > > linux. > > Not sure exactly what you mean with this one. Are you talking about > the lib80211 line item? Or enhancements to the mac80211 component > to support full(er) MAC designs? I hope just lib80211. We shouldn't be extending mac80211 to fullmac or quasi-fullmac parts. But we can certainly share a lot of stuff. lib80211 is where I see any additional fullmac effort going. Dan > > I think that these two topics should take precedence over other topics > > that although important consume more time in the agenda, and are > > currently less likely to have impact on the average users such as 11s > > and 11w. > > > > it would be good if these topics will get substantial time slot in the agenda. > > There are lots of items listed, and I'm not sure we will cover all > of them. If there are any that you would like to suggest be dropped > completely then please do so. > > That said, I don't think we have enough time for real working sessions > on Tuesday. I think it would be better just to touch on a variety > of topics that can benefit from some face-to-face discussions. > From that perspective, I think some status reports and some brief > proposals are most appropriate. > > I'll post a revised (mostly just augmented) agenda proposal today. > > John -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## REVISED AGENDA -- Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: John W. Linville \ - Date: 2008-07-15 18:37:49 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1125621.md ```text I revised the agenda based on the feedback from last week. Most changes are fairly minor, although I moved the vendor/distro round table after lunch to give us a chance to cover some in-progress work beforehand. As I mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I don't think we have enough time for work sessions on Tuesday. As others have pointed-out, there is plenty of time for extended discussions during the days at OLS. So I think we should keep Tuesday for more high-level design and development process discussions. Feel free to volunteer to cover any of the listed topics. Further suggestions to alter or augment the agenda are, of course, still welcome as well. Thanks! John --- 3rd Linux Wireless Summit Ottawa, Canada 22 July 2008 Proposed Agenda 0830 Meet & Greet Introductions and opening remarks 0900 Status Reports Overview of where things stand today - 802.11n - QoS/Multiqueue - spectrum management - Mesh mode (802.11s) - RF kill 1015 Break 1030 Current Work Short presentations/discussions about work in progress - access point mode - cfg80211/nl80211 - time to push to replace WEXT? - tool enhancements and/or userland support? - regulatory enforcement (802.11d, CRDA) - encrypted management frames (802.11w) - virtual hardware (mac80211_hwsim) - WiMAX 1200 Lunch/Break (provided by HP) 1300 Vendor/Distro Round Table Representatives from hardware vendors and Linux distributions discuss issues around cooperation between themselves and the development community, what we are doing well, and what problems we are causing for each other. 1445 Break 1500 Future work Short presentations/discussions about work that has previously been suggested or requested - power management - suspend/resume - power savings - lib80211 (code sharing w/ full MAC drivers) - rate scaling algorithms - minstrel - others? - userland MLME - userland driver implementation - organized testing? 1645 Break 1700 Maintainence Issues Round table discussion of issues related to maintenance of the wireless trees - trivial/cleanup patches - testing or other requirements? - should they have lower priority? - should they require ACKs from primary author? - submissions to -stable - who should drive it? - what policies? - rate scaling algs - driver-specific ok? what limitations? - build policies (part of mac80211.ko?) - questions/suggestions/complaints 1800 Dinner/Break (sorry, no funding) 2000 BoF/Break-out Sessions Impromptu and/or unscheduled discussions as desired by group participants -- John W. Linville linville-2XuSBdqkA4R54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Dan Williams \ - Date: 2008-07-15 18:41:04 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1125624.md ```text On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 14:14 -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Dan Williams wrote: > > > Some of the issues with the current Marvell 83xx GPL drivers that have > > gotten out are (a) code style, (b) lots of commented out stuff that's > > never used, (c) OS abstraction that's unnecessary on Linux, (d) doesn't > > use mac80211, and (e) uses private ioctls. So hopefully you're writing > > a new 83xx driver from scratch :) > > Yes, this is all from scratch. The objective for this work is to be > "mainlinable". > > > We cleaned up a lot of stuff for the OLPC 8388 libertas driver, but > > unfortunately we never were able to get the Marvell 8388 team onboard, > > and so they just went off and kept working on their driver and didn't > > really move the upstream libertas driver forward at all. > > Libertas is a rather different beast. Obviously; this was just an observation about the last time we got a wireless driver from Marvell. I expect it to work out rather differently this time simply on the strength of your and Lennert's track-record, but if it's really just you two guys and you don't have buy-in from the actual hardware and software teams inside Marvell, it's hard to see how this wouldn't just happen again. Dan -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## 2nd REVISED AGENDA -- Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: John W. Linville \ - Date: 2008-07-16 19:30:33 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1126298.md ```text I adjusted the times based on the schedule for lunch and coffee breaks from the OLS crew. I also adjusted the length of some slots, and move the BoF/Break-Out/BarCamp section before adjourning for dinner. I'm still looking for more/different topics and for people to explicitly claim the ones on the list...speak up! John --- 3rd Linux Wireless Summit Les Suites Hotel, Byward Suite Ottawa, Canada 22 July 2008 Proposed Agenda 0830 Meet & Greet Introductions and opening remarks 0900 Status Reports Overview of where things stand today - QoS/Multiqueue - 802.11n - spectrum management - Mesh mode (802.11s) - RF kill - driver status reports 1000 Break 1030 Current Work Short presentations/discussions about work in progress - access point mode - cfg80211/nl80211 - time to push to replace WEXT? - tool enhancements and/or userland support? - regulatory enforcement (802.11d, CRDA) - encrypted management frames (802.11w) - virtual hardware (mac80211_hwsim) - WiMAX 1200 Vendor/Distro Round Table Representatives from hardware vendors and Linux distributions discuss issues around cooperation between themselves and the development community, what we are doing well, and what problems we are causing for each other. 1230 Lunch/Break (provided by HP) 1330 Future work Short presentations/discussions about work that has previously been suggested or requested - power management - suspend/resume - power savings - lib80211 (code sharing w/ full MAC drivers) - rate scaling algorithms - minstrel - others? - userland MLME - userland driver implementation - organized testing (anyone have a proposal?) 1500 BoF/Break-out/BarCamp Session Proposals 1530 Break 1600 BoF/Break-out/BarCamp Sessions Impromptu and/or unscheduled discussions as desired by group participants 1730 BoF/Break-out/BarCamp Session Reports 1800 Maintainence Issues Round table discussion of issues related to maintenance of the wireless trees - trivial/cleanup patches - testing or other requirements? - should they have lower priority? - should they require ACKs from primary author? - submissions to -stable - who should drive it? - what policies? - rate scaling algs - driver-specific ok? what limitations? - build policies (part of mac80211.ko?) - questions/suggestions/complaints 1830 Adjourn -- John W. Linville linville-2XuSBdqkA4R54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: 2nd REVISED AGENDA -- Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: John W. Linville \ - Date: 2008-07-16 20:31:25 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1126324.md ```text On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 02:48:03PM -0400, John W. Linville wrote: > 3rd Linux Wireless Summit > Les Suites Hotel, Byward Suite > Ottawa, Canada > 22 July 2008 Just to emphasize, please note the location. The mini-summit will be held at Les Suites, _not_ at the Congress Centre. John -- John W. Linville linville-2XuSBdqkA4R54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: 2nd REVISED AGENDA -- Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Luis R. Rodriguez \ - Date: 2008-07-17 10:06:18 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1126588.md ```text On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:48 AM, John W. Linville [ref] wrote: > - regulatory enforcement (802.11d, CRDA) I'll cover this. If we can't cover this well in the time frame provided we can discuss this over the course of the week in impromptu sessions. Luis ``` ## Re: 2nd REVISED AGENDA -- Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Luis R. Rodriguez \ - Date: 2008-07-17 10:16:22 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1126590.md ```text On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:48 AM, John W. Linville [ref] wrote: > I'm still looking for more/different topics A couple I can think of: * Compat-wireless, this can be discussed after new MQ patch. We may have to freeze mac80211 for old kernels for compat-wireless after the MQ patch goes through and only leave in it fixes moving forward. This consideration is because porting the MQ patch may be very difficult to maintain. It was expected though that the first MQ patch could not be ported though so we'll see, we just might be able to port this properly. We can talk about this further at the summit. * Testing -- lets get serious about automation of testing. The Orbit grid is still available, we just need to put together scripts and test scenarios. * Rate control cleanup -- this needs to a good review and cleanup. Probably not high on our priority list though. We can talk about this further during the "rate scaling algs" section on the agenda. Luis ``` ## 3rd REVISED AGENDA -- Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: John W. Linville \ - Date: 2008-07-19 00:00:33 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1127612.md ```text One more adjustment to account for change in the lunch schedule. John --- 3rd Linux Wireless Summit Les Suites Hotel, Byward Suite Ottawa, Canada 22 July 2008 Proposed Agenda 0830 Meet & Greet Introductions and opening remarks 0900 Status Reports Overview of where things stand today - QoS/Multiqueue - 802.11n - spectrum management - Mesh mode (802.11s) - RF kill - driver status reports 1000 Break 1030 Current Work Short presentations/discussions about work in progress - access point mode - cfg80211/nl80211 - time to push to replace WEXT? - tool enhancements and/or userland support? - regulatory enforcement (802.11d, CRDA) - encrypted management frames (802.11w) - virtual hardware (mac80211_hwsim) - WiMAX 1200 Vendor/Distro Round Table Representatives from hardware vendors and Linux distributions discuss issues around cooperation between themselves and the development community, what we are doing well, and what problems we are causing for each other. 1230 Lunch/Break (provided) 1400 Future work Short presentations/discussions about work that has previously been suggested or requested - power management - suspend/resume - power savings - lib80211 (code sharing w/ full MAC drivers) - rate scaling algorithms - minstrel - others? - userland MLME - userland driver implementation - organized testing (anyone have a proposal?) 1530 BoF/Break-out/BarCamp Session Proposals 1600 Break 1630 BoF/Break-out/BarCamp Sessions Impromptu and/or unscheduled discussions as desired by group participants 1800 BoF/Break-out/BarCamp Session Reports 1830 Maintainence Issues Round table discussion of issues related to maintenance of the wireless trees - trivial/cleanup patches - testing or other requirements? - should they have lower priority? - should they require ACKs from primary author? - submissions to -stable - who should drive it? - what policies? - rate scaling algs - driver-specific ok? what limitations? - build policies (part of mac80211.ko?) - questions/suggestions/complaints 1900 Adjourn -- John W. Linville linville-2XuSBdqkA4R54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Dan Williams \ - Date: 2008-07-21 14:26:10 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1128253.md ```text On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 14:14 -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Dan Williams wrote: > > > Some of the issues with the current Marvell 83xx GPL drivers that have > > gotten out are (a) code style, (b) lots of commented out stuff that's > > never used, (c) OS abstraction that's unnecessary on Linux, (d) doesn't > > use mac80211, and (e) uses private ioctls. So hopefully you're writing > > a new 83xx driver from scratch :) > > Yes, this is all from scratch. The objective for this work is to be > "mainlinable". BTW, any chance on putting up a git repo somewhere so others can poke around with it? I'm quite interested in hacking on it. Dan ``` ## Re: Linux Wireless Mini-Summit -- Ottawa -- July 22, 2008 - From: Nicolas Pitre \ - Date: 2008-07-21 16:46:45 - Message: https://ratatoskr.run/netdev/2008/07/1128314.md ```text On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Dan Williams wrote: > On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 14:14 -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Dan Williams wrote: > > > > > Some of the issues with the current Marvell 83xx GPL drivers that have > > > gotten out are (a) code style, (b) lots of commented out stuff that's > > > never used, (c) OS abstraction that's unnecessary on Linux, (d) doesn't > > > use mac80211, and (e) uses private ioctls. So hopefully you're writing > > > a new 83xx driver from scratch :) > > > > Yes, this is all from scratch. The objective for this work is to be > > "mainlinable". > > BTW, any chance on putting up a git repo somewhere so others can poke > around with it? I'm quite interested in hacking on it. Eventually, of course. Let's discuss f2f tomorrow. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ```