Re: Hardware debuggers for PPC74xx G4 CPUs

7 messages, 4 authors, 2007-11-23 · open the first message on its own page

Re: Hardware debuggers for PPC74xx G4 CPUs

From: Wolfgang Denk <hidden>
Date: 2007-11-18 00:54:07

In message [off-list ref] you wrote:
quoted
* The documentation is only available under NDA, a problem for open
source debuggers.
This is what we need. I would like it specifically for the mpc5200.
But we want to use it in OpenOCD so NDA won't work.
It doesn't work. Been  there  a  logn  time  ago.  It's  and  endless
fingerpointing.  Freescale  (by  then:  Motorola)  says  they  cannot
release any information because of their contracts with IBM, and vice
versa.
Dominic is way experienced implementing JTAG for ARM CPUs. He has done
several dozen interfaces. ARM doesn't have any problems releasing
their debugging info.
JTAG is simple, but you don't get the necessery information for the
COP (= debug) interface.

Best regards,

Wolfgang Denk

-- 
DENX Software Engineering GmbH,     MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel
HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd@denx.de
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Re: Hardware debuggers for PPC74xx G4 CPUs

From: Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>
Date: 2007-11-22 23:37:24

On Sun, 2007-11-18 at 01:47 +0100, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
In message [off-list ref] you wrote:
quoted
quoted
* The documentation is only available under NDA, a problem for open
source debuggers.
This is what we need. I would like it specifically for the mpc5200.
But we want to use it in OpenOCD so NDA won't work.
It doesn't work. Been  there  a  logn  time  ago.  It's  and  endless
fingerpointing.  Freescale  (by  then:  Motorola)  says  they  cannot
release any information because of their contracts with IBM, and vice
versa.
It seems like AMCC does provide the necessary infos for 4xx processors
though. Jon, do you think what they provide is enough to use an open
source debugger ?

Ben.

Re: Hardware debuggers for PPC74xx G4 CPUs

From: Jon Smirl <hidden>
Date: 2007-11-23 00:00:16

On 11/22/07, Benjamin Herrenschmidt [off-list ref] wrote:
On Sun, 2007-11-18 at 01:47 +0100, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
quoted
In message [off-list ref] you wrote:
quoted
quoted
* The documentation is only available under NDA, a problem for open
source debuggers.
This is what we need. I would like it specifically for the mpc5200.
But we want to use it in OpenOCD so NDA won't work.
It doesn't work. Been  there  a  logn  time  ago.  It's  and  endless
fingerpointing.  Freescale  (by  then:  Motorola)  says  they  cannot
release any information because of their contracts with IBM, and vice
versa.
It seems like AMCC does provide the necessary infos for 4xx processors
though. Jon, do you think what they provide is enough to use an open
source debugger ?
Do you have a link to the info?
Ben.


-- 
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@gmail.com

Re: Hardware debuggers for PPC74xx G4 CPUs

From: Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>
Date: 2007-11-23 00:22:20

On Thu, 2007-11-22 at 19:00 -0500, Jon Smirl wrote:
quoted
It seems like AMCC does provide the necessary infos for 4xx
processors
quoted
though. Jon, do you think what they provide is enough to use an open
source debugger ?
Do you have a link to the info?
Not at hand, but easy to find from AMCC main product page, you can then
go to the various eval board download pages, and some of the d/l are
infos for JTAG debugger manufacturers.

Ben.

Re: Hardware debuggers for PPC74xx G4 CPUs

From: Jon Smirl <hidden>
Date: 2007-11-23 15:03:11

On 11/22/07, Benjamin Herrenschmidt [off-list ref] wrote:
On Thu, 2007-11-22 at 19:00 -0500, Jon Smirl wrote:
quoted
quoted
It seems like AMCC does provide the necessary infos for 4xx
processors
quoted
though. Jon, do you think what they provide is enough to use an open
source debugger ?
Do you have a link to the info?
Not at hand, but easy to find from AMCC main product page, you can then
go to the various eval board download pages, and some of the d/l are
infos for JTAG debugger manufacturers.
Dominick Rath wrote OpenOCD (open source JTAG) as his senior thesis in
college, he graduated this spring and has a job now. I've sent mail to
him but he may be a lost cause.
Thesis: http://developer.berlios.de/docman/display_doc.php?docid=1367&group_id=4148

Low cost dev tools are an important part of the CPU selection process.
We went through four ARM CPUs before deciding on the MPC5200. We were
able to get ARM eval boards and JTAGs for under $500 for each of the
eval CPUs. We used the low cost evals to screen the CPUs, we didn't
want spend $5-10K until we are 90% sure we are going to use the CPU. I
returned one $5K eval board, it was a pain and it took over six months
to get a refund.

We have also learned the hard way about "port and forget" several of
the CPUs we picked had Linux ports, but the ports were five years old.
When we pushed the vendors for more recent kernels the typical answer
was, send us $50,000 and we'll see what we can do. We're not going to
send in $50K for a CPU we haven't decided to use, that answer simply
resulted in us changing CPUs. An example of this is the NXP LPC3180,
$9 with a FPU, but only a 2.6.5 kernel.

I've also only seen ARM CPUs being used in schools. You can get ARM
eval boards and a JTAG for under $100 on some ARM CPUs. AFAIK there is
no low cost PowerPC option suitable for classroom use.

-- 
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@gmail.com

Re: Hardware debuggers for PPC74xx G4 CPUs

From: Jon Smirl <hidden>
Date: 2007-11-23 20:26:58

On 11/23/07, Jon Smirl [off-list ref] wrote:
On 11/22/07, Benjamin Herrenschmidt [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
On Thu, 2007-11-22 at 19:00 -0500, Jon Smirl wrote:
quoted
quoted
It seems like AMCC does provide the necessary infos for 4xx
processors
quoted
though. Jon, do you think what they provide is enough to use an open
source debugger ?
Do you have a link to the info?
Not at hand, but easy to find from AMCC main product page, you can then
go to the various eval board download pages, and some of the d/l are
infos for JTAG debugger manufacturers.
Grant, I heard back from the Amontec (a JTAG company) developers. They
are interested in doing an open JTAG for the Xilinx Microblaze.  Is
that the FPGA you've been working with?

-- 
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@gmail.com

Re: Hardware debuggers for PPC74xx G4 CPUs

From: Grant Likely <hidden>
Date: 2007-11-23 20:30:39

On 11/23/07, Jon Smirl [off-list ref] wrote:
On 11/23/07, Jon Smirl [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
On 11/22/07, Benjamin Herrenschmidt [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
On Thu, 2007-11-22 at 19:00 -0500, Jon Smirl wrote:
quoted
quoted
It seems like AMCC does provide the necessary infos for 4xx
processors
quoted
though. Jon, do you think what they provide is enough to use an open
source debugger ?
Do you have a link to the info?
Not at hand, but easy to find from AMCC main product page, you can then
go to the various eval board download pages, and some of the d/l are
infos for JTAG debugger manufacturers.
Grant, I heard back from the Amontec (a JTAG company) developers. They
are interested in doing an open JTAG for the Xilinx Microblaze.  Is
that the FPGA you've been working with?
Yes, the FPGA I'm using can host a Microblaze design; except my work
has focused on the ppc405 hard IP core instead of the microblaze core.

Regardless, this sounds interesting.  Can you get JTAG debug info out of Xilinx?

Cheers,
g.
.
--
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@gmail.com

-- 
Grant Likely, B.Sc., P.Eng.
Secret Lab Technologies Ltd.
grant.likely@secretlab.ca
(403) 399-0195
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