Argh, didn't add the maillist in my first response, so once again
from scratch.
From: Ethan Benson <redacted>
On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 11:20:17AM -0800, Henry A. Worth wrote:
quoted
=20
I filled 32MB up quite easily with test kernels. Of course
normal users won't have that problem. You should=20
leave enough room for several kernels so you can have a=20
basic rescue kernel and ramdisk, a good stable kernel, and=20
that spiffy new kernel that's going to mess everything up
and require you to use that rescue kernel. Also if you start
experimenting with the system folder approach you'll be dupping
yaboot and conf into the system folder.
=20
kernels do not belong on the HFS boot partition, they belong on the
ext2 root filesystem. yaboot !=3D bootx it boots the kernels from ext2
bootx does not.
That's interesting to know, I'd been wondering about that.
quoted
=20
Hm, didn't have that problem when I was using that.=20
A bit hard to boot off a root partition that doesn't exist, or
a CD that doesn't support your machine. Any good installation
is also going to have provisions for a rescue boot that doesn't
depend upon any of the Linux partitions. With floppies going the
way of the dodo, that usually means some form of boot partition.
In my case I also needed a setup that would allow me to use
MacOS to download test kernels until they worked reliably
enough to do a full install.
some don't, when i worked on a similer project we would have multiple
machines with the EXACT same OS version, one would consistently remove
the blessing and boot blocks, the other hardly ever... =20
quoted
You shouldn't need the system folder nonsense if you also set boot-file.
Which is one of the nice things about this approach if a Linux-only
system.
people hate messing with OF settings. deal with it. that is why i
reccomend a non macos mountable bootstrap partition, with this
configuration you do not need to touch OF.
I largely agree with you, but there are always alternative needs and
solutions.
quoted
=20
The problem I had with ybin (of course my perpective is someone=20
trying to debug support for a machine that will not boot and=20
install Linux yet), is that this has to be done from Linux.
ybin is a linux utility. macos does not provide the infrstructure for
me to build something similer, it would require a C program, I am not
a macos programmer and don't want to be. =20
quoted
It would be a lot more usefull if it was a MacOS tool
it might be useful to have a macos tool but my goal is to eliminate
the need to do everything from macos, also if you would read the web
page it explains quite clealy that the point of ybin is to provide a
quik/lilo like way to manage a bootstrap partition. if that is not
what you want then ybin is not for you.
Actually, ybin is probably a part of what I need, but I couldn't
determine that from Ben's link or your webpage.
quoted
or you at least had seperate docs, after downloading it I couldn't=20
unpackage it in MacOS and with no docs decided it wasn't worth=20
tar.gz is hardly difficult to unpackage under macos. lets leave the
misinformation out please. there IS docs in the ybin package, not as
much as i would like, but 0.12 will have more. =20
The macgzip I downloaded would not unzip it, and I've seen other
complaints of the same. Probably not the latest version or IE
munged the download, but most potential users are not going
to spend their limited time debugging a tools packaging when they
have no reason to believe that tool is going to help them. That's
why enough seperate documentation is needed to know if this is
a must have and to be able to plan how and when it will be used.
quoted
the trouble to transfer to my x86 system to see what it consisted=20
this is rubbish you don't need to transfer it to a intel system to
unpack it. you seem to think that macos is only capable of extracting
stuffit archives.=20
Not at all, but there are limits to how much time I, or anyone else,
is going spend downloading tools for MacOs to support a utility that
they had not been convinced would be of use. I'm not interested in
MacOS or downloading a bunch of tools that I would only use once.
If it wasn't for DVD's, MacOS would have already been flushed from
my system as soon as I didn't need it to download kernels for testing.
quoted
of. Until someone produces some definitative consolidated=20
documentation for yaBoot and these other tools, so users can plan
ahead, they are already going to have their system repartioned and=20
have reinstalled MacOS and install Linux to find out they are going=20
to have to do it all over again, yeh...right.=20
I happen to be working on documenting all of this, and am more then
halfway there. if you don't have a bootstrap partition then yes you
have to repartition or keep things on your macos partition. ybin will
allow you to install yaboot to a macos partition, but that
configuration forces you to screw with OF and that is why i don't
reccommend it. i will not reccomend methods that require fscking with
OF becuase i know people don't want that.
That's good news and badly needed, the two putative end-user
distributions have dropped the ball here. Since they are
the ones trying to make a buck pushing this on end users, I
view them as having the ultimate responsibility to throughly
document this stuff. With SUSE getting involved and some signs
that Mandrake is interested in PPC, there is hope for
improvement in that arena.
But any comprehensive document needs to cover all the options
and their pros and cons. Make your recommendations, but don't
forget that other users have different needs and biases. And
please make the document available seperate from your package
in plain text, HTML, or pdf. Wish I could help you, this is
badly needed, but until a few weeks ago I hadn't touched a
Mac in nearly a decade, and only have all the conflicting
opinions and facts I could glean, largely from these mailists,
to go by. I'd be happy to review your document if you'd like.
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/
On Thu, Mar 30, 2000 at 12:07:44PM -0800, Henry A. Worth wrote:
A bit hard to boot off a root partition that doesn't exist, or
a CD that doesn't support your machine. Any good installation
is also going to have provisions for a rescue boot that doesn't
depend upon any of the Linux partitions. With floppies going the
way of the dodo, that usually means some form of boot partition.
yaboot will boot off ANY partition it knows how to read, including
HFS+ since it can just use OF's HFS+ support. you could boot a kernel
off your /home /var or /usr/local partition if you have them. if you
have a macos partition i suggest dropping your kernel there and
booting it with yaboot. this does not require the yaboot partition to
be macos readable.
In my case I also needed a setup that would allow me to use
MacOS to download test kernels until they worked reliably
enough to do a full install.
again no need for a macos readable bootstrap partition, keep your
kernels and initial yaboot on the macos partition and OF boot them
directly. in this case no matter what you are going to have to screw
with OF. there is not reason to ensure that you have to screw with OF
permanatly by making a macos mountable bootstrap partition.
I largely agree with you, but there are always alternative needs and
solutions.
i have yet to see a compelling argument against the Apple_Bootstrap
partition type.
Actually, ybin is probably a part of what I need, but I couldn't
determine that from Ben's link or your webpage.
ybin will do nothing for you on macos, that should be clear to anyone
who bothers to read the web page. i don't care about macos and am not
going to learn to program macos to make something for it.
The macgzip I downloaded would not unzip it, and I've seen other
complaints of the same. Probably not the latest version or IE
munged the download, but most potential users are not going
to spend their limited time debugging a tools packaging when they
have no reason to believe that tool is going to help them. That's
why enough seperate documentation is needed to know if this is
a must have and to be able to plan how and when it will be used.
i fail to see how its my problem that people don't know how to
download a bloody file off the web without destroying it. I also
have gotten exactly ZERO reports of this. if people are having
problems they sure are not complaining very loudly.
just to make sure the file on the server is not damaged:
[eb@socrates eb]$ md5sum src/ybin-0.11.tar.gz
6c97abe1edd55dd9b2ef141c89a2e1a7 src/ybin-0.11.tar.gz
[eb@socrates eb]$ ssh www.linuxppc.org
eb@www.linuxppc.org's password:
[eb@www ybin]$ md5sum ybin-0.11.tar.gz
6c97abe1edd55dd9b2ef141c89a2e1a7 ybin-0.11.tar.gz
[eb@www ybin]$
[eb@socrates eb]$ wget http://www.linuxppc.org/ybin/ybin-0.11.tar.gz
--19:29:41-- http://www.linuxppc.org:80/ybin/ybin-0.11.tar.gz
=> `ybin-0.11.tar.gz'
Connecting to www.linuxppc.org:80... connected!
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 22,400 [application/x-gunzip]
0K -> .......... .......... . [100%]
19:29:46 (5.36 KB/s) - `ybin-0.11.tar.gz' saved [22400/22400]
[eb@socrates eb]$ md5sum ybin-0.11.tar.gz
6c97abe1edd55dd9b2ef141c89a2e1a7 ybin-0.11.tar.gz
[eb@socrates eb]$ md5sum src/ybin-0.11.tar.gz
6c97abe1edd55dd9b2ef141c89a2e1a7 src/ybin-0.11.tar.gz
[eb@socrates eb]$
[eb@socrates eb]$ wget http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/ybin/ybin-0.11.tar.gz
--19:23:27--
http://www.alaska.net:80/%7Eerbenson/ybin/ybin-0.11.tar.gz
=> `ybin-0.11.tar.gz'
Connecting to www.alaska.net:80... connected!
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 22,400 [application/x-tar]
0K -> .......... .......... . [100%]
19:23:32 (4.83 KB/s) - `ybin-0.11.tar.gz' saved [22400/22400]
[eb@socrates eb]$ md5sum ybin-0.11.tar.gz
6c97abe1edd55dd9b2ef141c89a2e1a7 ybin-0.11.tar.gz
[eb@socrates eb]$
as you can see no matter how i get it i always get a matching md5sum
with my original copy.
just in case you don't trust md5s:
[eb@socrates eb]$ cp src/ybin-0.11.tar.gz.asc .
[eb@socrates eb]$ gpg --verify ybin-0.11.tar.gz.asc
gpg: Signature made Mon 13 Mar 2000 06:54:03 AM AKST using DSA key ID 2C447AFC
gpg: Good signature from "Ethan R. Benson [off-list ref]"
[eb@socrates eb]$
my local copy of the GnuPG signature the linuxppc.com copy of ybin.
the file extracts just fine from linux, and just for good measure i
copied it to a floppy (the one downloaded from linuxppc.org) with
hfsutils and tried to extract it with Stuffit Expander 4.5 on my
powerbook 540c (running macos 8.1) it ungziped and untared it without
a single complaint, every file was perfectly intact.
I don't know what to tell, it looks to me like improperly downloaded
file, which will destroy your kernels just as well as a tarball.
maybe that is why you have problems booting your machine?
Not at all, but there are limits to how much time I, or anyone else,
is going spend downloading tools for MacOs to support a utility that
macos comes with stuffit expander which extracts tarballs just fine.
if it doesn't then there was a problem downloading, which would
destroy your kernels just as well as a tarball. again i fail to see
how this is my problem.
they had not been convinced would be of use. I'm not interested in
MacOS or downloading a bunch of tools that I would only use once.
If it wasn't for DVD's, MacOS would have already been flushed from
DeCSS, it removes cascading style sheets from web pages ;-)
my system as soon as I didn't need it to download kernels for testing.
That's good news and badly needed, the two putative end-user
distributions have dropped the ball here. Since they are
the ones trying to make a buck pushing this on end users, I
view them as having the ultimate responsibility to throughly
document this stuff. With SUSE getting involved and some signs
that Mandrake is interested in PPC, there is hope for
improvement in that arena.
debian's installation will take care of creating this bootstrap
partition and probably setup yaboot as part of the installtion.
But any comprehensive document needs to cover all the options
and their pros and cons. Make your recommendations, but don't
forget that other users have different needs and biases. And
i will mention that the bootstrap partition CAN but should not be a
regular HFS partition for the reasons i have stated. but i am not
going to obfuscate the docs with lots of info about methods i have
found DO NOT WORK RELIABLY.
please make the document available seperate from your package
in plain text, HTML, or pdf. Wish I could help you, this is
they are man pages, they will be posted to the internet in HTML format
and available in the distribution in nroff and probably HTML as well.
badly needed, but until a few weeks ago I hadn't touched a
Mac in nearly a decade, and only have all the conflicting
opinions and facts I could glean, largely from these mailists,
to go by. I'd be happy to review your document if you'd like.
--
Ethan Benson
http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/