Hi,
Return for :
From: David Monro <redacted>
on " bootloader ideas "
date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 06:52:37 +0000 >>>
Hi,
I've been thinking about bootloaders. Particularly with respect to PReP
machines.
The current method of making the kernel a binary loaded by the firmware
is a bit of a kluge. It means we have to jump through hoops to change
kernel parameters etc. It seems to me there are two or three obvious
approaches, but first I need some information.
1) What if any services does the PReP firmware provide once it loads an
image? I'm guessing that it isn't a lot, just the residual data to tell
us what hardware we have. I could be wrong here though - can anybody
tell me where to find softcopy PReP documentation?
2) What does the ARC bootloader goop for NT provide in the way of
services? I'm guessing rather more. In particular I suspect we have a
way or reading files, by name, from a FAT16-formatted partition, and
possibly passing them arguments, maybe stored in nvram. This is the way
some Alpha systems do it; you set up an ARC boot entry to run a little
executable (ldmilo.exe) which loads a file called 'milo' from the same
directory and executes it. Milo then takes over and loads the kernel.
Do all the PReP machines have ARC available for them? I would guess most
do, but I could be wrong.
I think so, too.
Some of PRePs cannot install because of ARC firmware.
They cannot rewrite itself from ARC to PRePspec firmware.
And, FireWorks PReP machines maybe needs such loader.
If there are some bootloader like MILO, copy a loader kernel
on DOS based partition, it is very useful for all PRePs.
MILO is ported on MIPS and Alpha based machines, they have some
relationship with ARC. Maybe they have a same root, and compiled
for each machines. (Is it true? Please correct me.)
But I am afraid it need to make with original compiler.
(I suppose this needs some cross compile method for ARC-PPC. )
IMHO milo itself is overkill; it actually contains an awful lot of the
kernel code (basically the SCSI drivers etc) so that once loaded it can
load the kernel from any device that linux knows about, even if the
machine firmware and ARC don't know about it. The current PReP boot code
covers that eventuality even if it is a bit of a kluge - as long as the
kernel can be loaded by the firmware (even from floppy) it will work.
Assuming that more PReP machines have ARC images available, I'd be
interested in creating a bootloader which, once loaded from ARC, would
be able to load a kernel image from a device ARC could read, using ARC
services. Anybody got any documentation?
Linux/MIPS FAQ have some information for ARC, but they say ARC is
not a right firmware, only it boots up NT.
Maybe ARC have no work for device detection.
Ideally we would get to the point where all the platform-specific fixup
code etc was moved into the bootloaders, and then do away with the
CHRP/PReP/whatever compile option.
How cool it is!
Best regards.
----------------------
Kaz Aoshima = Editor of the PReP station
Material deveropment, Faculty of engineering,
Tohoku University, Japan
E-mail:aoshimak@mail.cc.tohoku.ac.jp
#I would appreciate if you could give me suggestions
for my impolite English expressions.
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/
I also believe that we need to move most of the platform-specific fixup
code into a boot loader. I am looking into GRUB at this point:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
The stage1 loader would need to have new ppc support, but this would
allow for complete fs support in the stage2 loader.
I will will look more at the other choices out there, but I've been real
happy with grub on x86 and it is fairly clean code. stage2 is in C and
shares much of the kernel FS code.
Thoughts?
Kazunori Aoshima wrote:
Hi,
Return for :
From: David Monro <redacted>
on " bootloader ideas "
date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 06:52:37 +0000 >>>
quoted
Hi,
I've been thinking about bootloaders. Particularly with respect to PReP
machines.
The current method of making the kernel a binary loaded by the firmware
is a bit of a kluge. It means we have to jump through hoops to change
kernel parameters etc. It seems to me there are two or three obvious
approaches, but first I need some information.
1) What if any services does the PReP firmware provide once it loads an
image? I'm guessing that it isn't a lot, just the residual data to tell
us what hardware we have. I could be wrong here though - can anybody
tell me where to find softcopy PReP documentation?
2) What does the ARC bootloader goop for NT provide in the way of
services? I'm guessing rather more. In particular I suspect we have a
way or reading files, by name, from a FAT16-formatted partition, and
possibly passing them arguments, maybe stored in nvram. This is the way
some Alpha systems do it; you set up an ARC boot entry to run a little
executable (ldmilo.exe) which loads a file called 'milo' from the same
directory and executes it. Milo then takes over and loads the kernel.
Do all the PReP machines have ARC available for them? I would guess most
do, but I could be wrong.
I think so, too.
Some of PRePs cannot install because of ARC firmware.
They cannot rewrite itself from ARC to PRePspec firmware.
And, FireWorks PReP machines maybe needs such loader.
If there are some bootloader like MILO, copy a loader kernel
on DOS based partition, it is very useful for all PRePs.
MILO is ported on MIPS and Alpha based machines, they have some
relationship with ARC. Maybe they have a same root, and compiled
for each machines. (Is it true? Please correct me.)
But I am afraid it need to make with original compiler.
(I suppose this needs some cross compile method for ARC-PPC. )
quoted
IMHO milo itself is overkill; it actually contains an awful lot of the
kernel code (basically the SCSI drivers etc) so that once loaded it can
load the kernel from any device that linux knows about, even if the
machine firmware and ARC don't know about it. The current PReP boot code
covers that eventuality even if it is a bit of a kluge - as long as the
kernel can be loaded by the firmware (even from floppy) it will work.
Assuming that more PReP machines have ARC images available, I'd be
interested in creating a bootloader which, once loaded from ARC, would
be able to load a kernel image from a device ARC could read, using ARC
services. Anybody got any documentation?
Linux/MIPS FAQ have some information for ARC, but they say ARC is
not a right firmware, only it boots up NT.
Maybe ARC have no work for device detection.
quoted
Ideally we would get to the point where all the platform-specific fixup
code etc was moved into the bootloaders, and then do away with the
CHRP/PReP/whatever compile option.
How cool it is!
Best regards.
----------------------
Kaz Aoshima = Editor of the PReP station
Material deveropment, Faculty of engineering,
Tohoku University, Japan
E-mail:aoshimak@mail.cc.tohoku.ac.jp
#I would appreciate if you could give me suggestions
for my impolite English expressions.
--
Tim Riker - http://rikers.org/ - short SIGs! <g>
All I need to know I could have learned in Kindergarten
... if I'd just been paying attention.
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Tim Riker wrote:
I also believe that we need to move most of the platform-specific fixup
code into a boot loader. I am looking into GRUB at this point:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
The stage1 loader would need to have new ppc support, but this would
allow for complete fs support in the stage2 loader.
I will will look more at the other choices out there, but I've been real
happy with grub on x86 and it is fairly clean code. stage2 is in C and
shares much of the kernel FS code.
Most of the code is probably fine, with the probably non trivial problem
that stage1 uses the BIOS to load stage2. And even stage2 might still use
the BIOS to load the kernel. That's the major problem since depending on
the PPC machine the firmware services are very different (PPCBUG, ARC,
Open Firmware), when they can be made to work. Otherwise you've to add
additional device drivers.
Gabriel.
** Sent via the linuxppc-dev mail list. See http://lists.linuxppc.org/