# Re: Documenting ptrace access mode checking

- From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) \<hidden\>
- Date: 2016-06-24 08:18:32 
- List: linux-api
- Page: https://ratatoskr.run/linux-api/2016/06/4781784
- Thread: https://ratatoskr.run/linux-man/2016/06/4781375/t.md

```text
On 06/23/2016 08:56 PM, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" [ref] writes:
>
>> Hi Oleg,
>>
>> On 06/22/2016 11:51 PM, Oleg Nesterov wrote:
>>> On 06/21, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Adding Oleg just because he seems to do most of the ptrace related
>>>> maintenance these days.
>>>
>>> so I have to admit that I never even tried to actually understand
>>> ptrace_may_access ;)
>>>
>>>> We certainly need something that gives a high level view so people
>>>> reading the man page can know what to expect.   If you get down into the
>>>> weeds we run the danger of people beginning to think they can depend
>>>> upon bugs in the implementation.
>>>
>>> Personally I agree. I think "man ptrace" shouldn't not tell too much
>>> about kernel internals.
>>
>> See my other replies on this topic. Somehow, we need a way of
>> describing the behavior that user-space sees. I think it's
>> inevitable that that means talking about what;s going on
>> "under the hood".
>>
>> Regarding Eric's point that "we run the danger of people beginning
>> to think they can depend upon bugs in the implementation": when it
>> comes to breaking the ABI, the presence or absence of documentation
>> doesn't save us on that point (Linus has a few times made his position
>> wrt to documentation clear).
>
> Which are interesting in this respect as a bug in the implementation
> that is a security issue can and will be changed, even if userspace
> breaks.  Breaking userspace is not desirable but when there is no other
> reasonable choice it will happen.

Yes, good point.

Cheers,

Michael


-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/
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