Re: [PATCH-w 101/105] t6300 (for-each-ref): modernize style

I sent out a reply to the same effect as Junio's longer one in this
side-thread.  You can disregard that.  Sorry for not first reading the
whole thread.

Tom Grennan [off-list ref] writes:

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 07:26:10PM -0800, Junio C Hamano wrote:

quoted

Tom Grennan [off-list ref] writes:

quoted

It's trivial to remove these "quiet" and "silent", but to me that's the
only value added by these patches.  More seriously, the remaining
modernization still seems much larger than its value.

Don't do that, then ;-).

Some older scripts do redirect the output from the commands to /dev/null
but that dates back before we made the default reasonably silent, and in
"modern" style we tend to keep them sent to their standard output to help
debuggability. These quiet/silent takes us to the prehistoric times.

Hey! I am prehistoric:-)

Like I said, I think there is currently a debug distraction with verbose
mode.  However, rather than hiding expected failures and diverting other
output as I had, perhaps we should dup stderr to stdout in verbose mode
so error messages show up near the logged invocation when piped through
a pager (i.e. mimic "|&").  With this, one can quickly scan past the
noise to focus on the broken cases.

If you have trouble finding the broken case, you can run with -v -i.

I also think you are making an argument for a different feature (which
does not rob us of having all the debug output): test-lib.sh could
perhaps redirect the test output to a file, and dump the file to stdout
only if the test failed.  Perhaps --verbose-failing or something like
that.

Otherwise, your proposal is restricting us to having only an "easily
scannable" amount of output per test, perhaps 5-15 lines.  Which I
personally think is an insane restriction for something that was
intended for debugging in the first place.

-- 
Thomas Rast
trast@{inf,student}.ethz.ch

On Thu, Mar 01, 2012 at 09:42:51AM +0100, Thomas Rast wrote:

Tom Grennan [off-list ref] writes:

quoted

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 07:26:10PM -0800, Junio C Hamano wrote:

quoted

Tom Grennan [off-list ref] writes:

Like I said, I think there is currently a debug distraction with verbose
mode.  However, rather than hiding expected failures and diverting other
output as I had, perhaps we should dup stderr to stdout in verbose mode
so error messages show up near the logged invocation when piped through
a pager (i.e. mimic "|&").  With this, one can quickly scan past the
noise to focus on the broken cases.

If you have trouble finding the broken case, you can run with -v -i.

I also think you are making an argument for a different feature (which
does not rob us of having all the debug output): test-lib.sh could
perhaps redirect the test output to a file, and dump the file to stdout
only if the test failed.  Perhaps --verbose-failing or something like
that.

Otherwise, your proposal is restricting us to having only an "easily
scannable" amount of output per test, perhaps 5-15 lines.  Which I
personally think is an insane restriction for something that was
intended for debugging in the first place.

Oh, I hadn't tried -i with -v. This does mimic "|&".
	(cd t && ./t5512-ls-remote.sh -v -i) | less
	(cd t && ./t5512-ls-remote.sh -v) |& less

So, please ignore my suggestion.

Thanks,
TomG