Future suggestion's to assist with changes to git.

I would like to have a positive outcome of all the theaded emails.  So 
this is an attempt to create a new thread that may focus on what can be 
done in the future.

From other threads, this was very note-able and I think it is a good 

start for this new thread...

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Jeff King wrote:

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 01:23:50PM -0700, Perry Wagle wrote:

quoted

But, my problem is not git<DASH> vs git<SPACE>, but the slap-dash way 
upward compatibility was broken and the "water over the dam" slippery 
slope rationalizations that refuse to consider reverting.  "You" will 
do it again in the future since you are declaring success here.  And 
"you" have likely done it in the past 6 months.

I don't think Junio is declaring success. In fact, I think he has sent
several messages saying (paraphrasing of course):

 - this was obviously not done in the best manner possible, because of
   the number of people complaining

 - we will try to do better about notification next time such a change
   is made. Please make suggestions about how to do so.

 - since we have already released and already broken everybody, and
   these people are now complaining on the list, there is not much
   point in trying to notify people of _this_ change now

Maybe on item could be on the git web site news items could be created to 
announce backward compatibility changes.  I think most people do visit the 
main website to look for information.  Having these changes posted there 
or linked from the main page could be a positive method so something like 
this will not happen in the future.

Junio (and others) have tried to be very careful about breaking
backwards compatibility, especially for scripting interfaces. We thought
sufficient steps were taken this time, but clearly some disagree.

+1, I am very grateful for the effort of all that try to keep this and the 
positive things done with git.  I really appreaciate what Junio does to 
notify every one on the email list.  What we learned is not everyone reads 
the changes being made with the announcements.  So maybe making a visible 
link or announcements on the main web page could assist with the 
notification and prevent future issues.

So please stop making specious claims that there are crazy 
backwards-incompatibility bugs lurking throughout new versions of git. 
If there are, then please find and name them. If not, then I think the 
git community would welcome suggestions about how better to notify users 
about the rare changes like this one.


-Peff

+1  So let's make constructive suggestions so we can prevent this in the 
future.

BTW, I dropped all the CC's to make sure this starts fresh.

Thanks,

--
Boyd Gerber [off-list ref]
ZENEZ	1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah  84047

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 05:10:53PM -0600, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:

Maybe on item could be on the git web site news items could be created to  
announce backward compatibility changes.  I think most people do visit the 
main website to look for information.  Having these changes posted there  
or linked from the main page could be a positive method so something like  
this will not happen in the future.

Do they? I haven't been to the git web site in quite a long time. Nor
have I been to (for example) the vim web site. The two things I would
personally notice are:

  - a note during upgrade of my system's packages. And this is going to
    be dependent on the packaging system used. 1.6.0 hasn't hit many
    distributions yet, so maybe there is still time for this. Gerrit,
    do you mind putting something into NEWS.Debian about the drop of
    "git-*" so that people with apt-listchanges will see it?

    For people building from source, we have the Release Notes, but
    beyond that, I don't know where to put it (and I don't meant the web
    site is a bad place -- the more places the better, but there is no
    catch-all place).

  - the command complaining that my use of it is deprecated. In
    retrospect, we probably should have done this.

-Peff

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Jeff King wrote:

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 05:10:53PM -0600, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:

quoted

Maybe on item could be on the git web site news items could be created to
announce backward compatibility changes.  I think most people do visit the
main website to look for information.  Having these changes posted there
or linked from the main page could be a positive method so something like
this will not happen in the future.

Do they? I haven't been to the git web site in quite a long time. Nor
have I been to (for example) the vim web site. The two things I would
personally notice are:

I only look at the web after reading the release notes.  But I think that 
if the web site had the notice then there could be no excuse about not 
having made it public.  Sure some people do not read the Release notes or 
follow the email lists, but maybe we could get those that miss the release 
notes or new users, a place to look in addition to the email list.  I know 
that it is hard to follow all the mails on the git list.

 - a note during upgrade of my system's packages. And this is going to
   be dependent on the packaging system used. 1.6.0 hasn't hit many
   distributions yet, so maybe there is still time for this. Gerrit,
   do you mind putting something into NEWS.Debian about the drop of
   "git-*" so that people with apt-listchanges will see it?

   For people building from source, we have the Release Notes, but
   beyond that, I don't know where to put it (and I don't meant the web
   site is a bad place -- the more places the better, but there is no
   catch-all place).

+1.  I know that I expect break-eges on X.Y for many things.  So maybe a 
note on the website that git uses the second Y for compatiability changes 
could assist some users.

 - the command complaining that my use of it is deprecated. In
   retrospect, we probably should have done this.

I really want to make it possible to avoid any of these complaints in the 
future.  I knew it was comming and had to change my scripts, but I am just 
trying to provide further methods to announce changes that some may notice 
that miss the email list message.

I personally look at the change logs and release notes.  If something in 
them makes me really want more information then I go to the project web 
site to look.  I think new users would notice something on the web site 
and then could realise that maybe some example in old documents could have 
problem.  Just my outloud thinking.

Thanks,

--
Boyd Gerber [off-list ref]
ZENEZ	1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah  84047

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 07:30:45PM -0400, Jeff King wrote:

  - a note during upgrade of my system's packages. And this is going to
    be dependent on the packaging system used. 1.6.0 hasn't hit many
    distributions yet, so maybe there is still time for this. Gerrit,
    do you mind putting something into NEWS.Debian about the drop of
    "git-*" so that people with apt-listchanges will see it?

Oops, I meant to cc this originally to Gerrit. Gerrit, I am adding you
mid-discussion, so if you have missed the giant flamewar about "git-*",
I can fill you in. :)

-Peff

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 07:57:38PM -0400, Jeff King wrote:

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 07:30:45PM -0400, Jeff King wrote:

quoted

  - a note during upgrade of my system's packages. And this is going to
    be dependent on the packaging system used. 1.6.0 hasn't hit many
    distributions yet, so maybe there is still time for this. Gerrit,
    do you mind putting something into NEWS.Debian about the drop of
    "git-*" so that people with apt-listchanges will see it?

Oops, I meant to cc this originally to Gerrit. Gerrit, I am adding you
mid-discussion, so if you have missed the giant flamewar about "git-*",
I can fill you in. :)

Yes, I chose to miss it ;).  I'll put an entry into NEWS.Debian with the
next Debian package upload.

Regards, Gerrit.