From: Junio C Hamano <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:45:03
"Scott Chacon" [off-list ref] writes:
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Junio C Hamano [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
...
These two are directly related. They might be friendly and well-meaning
folks, but I agree that they haven't earned our trust yet.
But I do not think it matters that much.
...
It's also somewhat interesting to observe that several people I have never
heard of in the git circle are simultaneously doing new git books,
apparently never asking for much technical advice from core git people, by
the way.
To be honest, I have asked for a fair amount of technical advice from
many helpful people in the IRC channel over the past few years. In my
case, one of my best friends - the guy I've been working with for the
last 4 years - is Nick Hengeveld, who has something like 50 commits in
there - why email the list when I can yell a question over the cube
wall? I'm sure you all have more important things to do than review
my book for newbies - I asked Nick to do it.
Ah, Nick. We haven't heard from him for quite some time. I've actually
been missed him from time to time whenever http related issues came up.
Please say hello to him for me ;-).
If I could code C worth a lick, I'm sure I would have contributed more
to this list, but since I have nothing that I feel would be helpful to
you, I've passively followed the list. I'm sorry that you do not
consider me a "git community member" just because I don't code C, and
so I can't contribute helpfully to core.
I realize I may have sounded somewhat harsh, but that was not my
intention. And I do not think what you said is fair, either.
We have had quite a few end user questions on this list, but I do not seem
to recall any of the names of the book writers, whose books are presumably
aimed at these people, answering them. Granted, core coders may be busy
bunch of people, and the questions and comments from new people sometimes
tend to be lost in flurry of patch floods. I and other core coders would
have greatly appreciated if non-coder experts like yourself helped these
threads that have never panned out.
I am not complaining. This cuts both ways. The patch floods do tend to
discourage new people from asking basic questions, and lack of answers
even more so. But it is not healthy for people who design and code not to
hear end user feedback. I personally would want to see the list traffic
to be inclusive.
The people who design the new features and write code should have easy
access to the issues the users of all levels have with the software and
the documentation (and what they find useful as well). What I am most
afraid of is that both "We do not bother the coders" and "We are too busy
to answer every newbie question" mentalities would lead to a fractured
community.
From: Scott Chacon <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:45:03
Perhaps it would be useful to split the mailing list into core/contrib
and support lists? I would be happy to help out answering questions -
a lot of them come directly to me anyhow because of the gitcasts site
and such.
Scott
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Junio C Hamano [off-list ref] wrote:
"Scott Chacon" [off-list ref] writes:
quoted
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Junio C Hamano [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
...
These two are directly related. They might be friendly and well-meaning
folks, but I agree that they haven't earned our trust yet.
But I do not think it matters that much.
...
It's also somewhat interesting to observe that several people I have never
heard of in the git circle are simultaneously doing new git books,
apparently never asking for much technical advice from core git people, by
the way.
To be honest, I have asked for a fair amount of technical advice from
many helpful people in the IRC channel over the past few years. In my
case, one of my best friends - the guy I've been working with for the
last 4 years - is Nick Hengeveld, who has something like 50 commits in
there - why email the list when I can yell a question over the cube
wall? I'm sure you all have more important things to do than review
my book for newbies - I asked Nick to do it.
Ah, Nick. We haven't heard from him for quite some time. I've actually
been missed him from time to time whenever http related issues came up.
Please say hello to him for me ;-).
quoted
If I could code C worth a lick, I'm sure I would have contributed more
to this list, but since I have nothing that I feel would be helpful to
you, I've passively followed the list. I'm sorry that you do not
consider me a "git community member" just because I don't code C, and
so I can't contribute helpfully to core.
I realize I may have sounded somewhat harsh, but that was not my
intention. And I do not think what you said is fair, either.
We have had quite a few end user questions on this list, but I do not seem
to recall any of the names of the book writers, whose books are presumably
aimed at these people, answering them. Granted, core coders may be busy
bunch of people, and the questions and comments from new people sometimes
tend to be lost in flurry of patch floods. I and other core coders would
have greatly appreciated if non-coder experts like yourself helped these
threads that have never panned out.
I am not complaining. This cuts both ways. The patch floods do tend to
discourage new people from asking basic questions, and lack of answers
even more so. But it is not healthy for people who design and code not to
hear end user feedback. I personally would want to see the list traffic
to be inclusive.
The people who design the new features and write code should have easy
access to the issues the users of all levels have with the software and
the documentation (and what they find useful as well). What I am most
afraid of is that both "We do not bother the coders" and "We are too busy
to answer every newbie question" mentalities would lead to a fractured
community.
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 09:27, Scott Chacon [off-list ref] wrote:
Perhaps it would be useful to split the mailing list into core/contrib
and support lists? I would be happy to help out answering questions -
a lot of them come directly to me anyhow because of the gitcasts site
and such.
Scott "no_w_ top-posting" Chacon
There, fixed that for you.
--
Cheers,
Sverre Rabbelier
From: Rene Herman <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:45:03
On 26-07-08 09:27, Scott Chacon wrote:
Perhaps it would be useful to split the mailing list into
core/contrib and support lists? I would be happy to help out
answering questions - a lot of them come directly to me anyhow
because of the gitcasts site and such.
A git-user list would be welcomed at least by me. It remains to be seen
how useful it would be (and stay) as often the user lists for a project
dwinddle a bit but I've subcribed and unsubscribed to this list a number
of times now since unless I've a specific question to ask, the list is
too busy too just sit around on; I end up deleting all list mail unread
every night anyway, so I just unsubcribe again.
Maybe a less busy and less implementation focussed list could help "me
and mine" gradually pick up new tips and tricks. Depends ofcourse on
willingness of some of the more proficient to be involved in that list
as well...
Rene.
From: Petr Baudis <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:45:03
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 12:11:01AM -0700, Junio C Hamano wrote:
The people who design the new features and write code should have easy
access to the issues the users of all levels have with the software and
the documentation (and what they find useful as well). What I am most
afraid of is that both "We do not bother the coders" and "We are too busy
to answer every newbie question" mentalities would lead to a fractured
community.
The community is already fractured! I think we actually have very tiny
fraction of the user base on the mailing list - the traffic is simply
too massive. After all we chose _our_ convenience over _users'_
convenience in making this tradeoff. Also, as I mentioned in the other
mail, it's not obvious to me whether major part of our community would
be willing to participate in any mailing list at all.
(Note that I don't want to imply that this would be inherently a Bad
Thing. Some feedback still bubbles through and we have ways like Jakub's
Git User Survey as well. Maybe the user community is by now simply too
big to make the direct cross-pollination with developers feasible.)
There was a proposal some time ago for making a web forum for Git; maybe
we were too dismissive to the suggestion. I wonder where *do* these 100k
of registered GitHubbers get their Git support now? :-)
--
Petr "Pasky" Baudis
As in certain cults it is possible to kill a process if you know
its true name. -- Ken Thompson and Dennis M. Ritchie
From: Jakub Narebski <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:45:03
Rene Herman [off-list ref] writes:
On 26-07-08 09:27, Scott Chacon wrote:
quoted
Perhaps it would be useful to split the mailing list into
core/contrib and support lists? I would be happy to help out
answering questions - a lot of them come directly to me anyhow
because of the gitcasts site and such.
A git-user list would be welcomed at least by me. It remains to be
seen how useful it would be (and stay) as often the user lists for a
project dwinddle a bit but I've subcribed and unsubscribed to this
list a number of times now since unless I've a specific question to
ask, the list is too busy too just sit around on; I end up deleting
all list mail unread every night anyway, so I just unsubcribe again.
Maybe a less busy and less implementation focused list could help "me
and mine" gradually pick up new tips and tricks. Depends ofcourse on
willingness of some of the more proficient to be involved in that list
as well...
Well, there _is_ separate Git Users Group at Google Groups
http://groups.google.com/group/git-users
nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git.user
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
ShadeHawk on #git
From: Scott Chacon <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:45:03
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Jakub Narebski [off-list ref] wrote:
Rene Herman [off-list ref] writes:
quoted
On 26-07-08 09:27, Scott Chacon wrote:
quoted
Perhaps it would be useful to split the mailing list into
core/contrib and support lists? I would be happy to help out
answering questions - a lot of them come directly to me anyhow
because of the gitcasts site and such.
A git-user list would be welcomed at least by me. It remains to be
seen how useful it would be (and stay) as often the user lists for a
project dwinddle a bit but I've subcribed and unsubscribed to this
list a number of times now since unless I've a specific question to
ask, the list is too busy too just sit around on; I end up deleting
all list mail unread every night anyway, so I just unsubcribe again.
Maybe a less busy and less implementation focused list could help "me
and mine" gradually pick up new tips and tricks. Depends ofcourse on
willingness of some of the more proficient to be involved in that list
as well...
Well, there _is_ separate Git Users Group at Google Groups
http://groups.google.com/group/git-users
nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git.user
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
ShadeHawk on #git
Perhaps I should link to that on git-scm as well / instead?
Scott
Perhaps I should link to that on git-scm as well / instead?
"As well" I can agree with. "Instead" I'm against that.
Git mailing list doesn't require subscription, and allow sending
emails using Usenet/news reader from GMane NNTP interface/gateway.
Not so with Google Group.
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland