Re: OSX, ZFS, UTF8, git - somebody hates me in this list

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"Randal" == Randal L Schwartz [off-list ref] writes:

Shawn> Isn't this just the normal HFS+ name mangling?

Randal> I don't recall having this problem on HFS+.

Also, ZFS is case-sensitive, which leads me to believe that out of
the box, it's more like UFS.

Still don't know why ZFS breaks but UFS works.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
[off-list ref] <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
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On Mon, 5 May 2008, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

Also, ZFS is case-sensitive, which leads me to believe that out of
the box, it's more like UFS.

Still don't know why ZFS breaks but UFS works.

UFS is a traditional Unix filesystem, and will not mangle your filenames.

ZFS apparently acts like a case-sensitive HFS+: it still tries to 
normalize to UTF-8 (and does it badly, at that - picking an Apple-specific 
almost-NFD form of normalization rather than the more sensible NFC form).

So ZFS may not corrupt cases, but it still corrupts UTF-8 filenames.

			Linus

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Linus Torvalds
[off-list ref] wrote:

 On Mon, 5 May 2008, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
 >
 > Also, ZFS is case-sensitive, which leads me to believe that out of
 > the box, it's more like UFS.
 >
 > Still don't know why ZFS breaks but UFS works.

 UFS is a traditional Unix filesystem, and will not mangle your filenames.

 ZFS apparently acts like a case-sensitive HFS+: it still tries to
 normalize to UTF-8 (and does it badly, at that - picking an Apple-specific
 almost-NFD form of normalization rather than the more sensible NFC form).

 So ZFS may not corrupt cases, but it still corrupts UTF-8 filenames.

Not sure if that is always the case.  This thread suggests otherwise:
http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=53303&tstart=0

Case sensitivity and mangling look like they are configurable.  See
the "casesensitivity" and "normalization" options at
http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2240/zfs-1m

ZFS on OSX may just default to "insensitive" and some form of
normalization especially if they were/are thinking about making it the
default fs and wanted backwards compatibility for broken apps.
Randal, can you make a new FS with casesensitivity=sensitive and
normalization=none and see how it behaves?

-Tarmigan

On May 5, 2008, at 02:00 PM, Tarmigan wrote:

Not sure if that is always the case.  This thread suggests otherwise:
http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=53303&tstart=0

Case sensitivity and mangling look like they are configurable.  See
the "casesensitivity" and "normalization" options at
http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2240/zfs-1m

ZFS on OSX may just default to "insensitive" and some form of
normalization especially if they were/are thinking about making it the
default fs and wanted backwards compatibility for broken apps.
Randal, can you make a new FS with casesensitivity=sensitive and
normalization=none and see how it behaves?

Those are only valid in OpenSolaris at the moment, they do nothing on  
the Leopard zfs beta:
macbookprov2# zfs set casesensitivity=sensitive zfs
cannot set property for 'zfs': invalid property 'casesensitivity'
macbookprov2# zfs set normalization=none zfs
cannot set property for 'zfs': invalid property 'normalization'
macbookprov2# uname -a
Darwin macbookprov2.local 9.2.2 Darwin Kernel Version 9.2.2: Tue Mar   
4 21:17:34 PST 2008; root:xnu-1228.4.31~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
macbookprov2# zfs get all zfs
NAME  PROPERTY       VALUE                  SOURCE
zfs   type           filesystem             -
zfs   creation       Sun May  4 22:03 2008  -
zfs   used           38.3M                  -
zfs   available      922M                   -
zfs   referenced     38.2M                  -
zfs   compressratio  1.00x                  -
zfs   mounted        yes                    -
zfs   quota          none                   default
zfs   reservation    none                   default
zfs   recordsize     128K                   default
zfs   mountpoint     /Volumes/zfs           default
zfs   sharenfs       off                    default
zfs   checksum       on                     default
zfs   compression    off                    default
zfs   atime          on                     default
zfs   devices        on                     default
zfs   exec           on                     default
zfs   setuid         on                     default
zfs   readonly       off                    default
zfs   zoned          off                    default
zfs   snapdir        hidden                 default
zfs   aclmode        groupmask              default
zfs   aclinherit     secure                 default
zfs   canmount       on                     default
zfs   shareiscsi     off                    default
zfs   xattr          on                     default
zfs   copies         1                      default
zfs   version        1                      -

mitch