From: Jakub Narebski <hidden> Date: 2007-08-18 23:28:58
Hi all,
We would like to ask you a few questions about your use of the GIT
version control system. This survey is mainly to understand who is
using GIT, how and why.
The results will be discussed on the git mailing list and published to
the GIT wiki at http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007
We'll close the survey in three weeks starting from 20 August 2007,
on 10 September 2007.
Please devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple
questionnaire, it will help a lot the git community to understand your
needs, what you like of GIT, and of course what you don't like of it.
The survey can be found here:
http://www.survey.net.nz/survey.php?94e135ff41e871a1ea5bcda3ee1856d9http://tinyurl.com/26774s
--
Jakub Narebski
From: Jakub Narebski <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:29
I have send this survey to git mailing list, LKML, Linux-MIPS,
Linux-NFS, OpenVZ, Agave, collectd, DirectFB, ELinks, Lilypond, Herrie,
netconf, KDbg, Palava, OLPC, Project Sidestep, Sourcemage Linux distro,
Tangram 2, Thousand Parsec, U-Boot, X.Org, xcb, D-BUS, HAL, Cairo,
Mesa3D, WINE, XMMS2, XStrikeForce and LWN. Posts to X.Org, Thousand
Parsec were automatically rejected: probably subscribe only lists.
Posts to OLPC, KDbg, Linux-NFS, HAL, XMMS2, Sourcemage Linux distro,
Elinks, collectd, netconf, Mesa3D, D-BUS, U-Boot wait for list
moderator approval.
NOTE: if somebody has filled survey *before* official start, to be more
exact before 16 August, he/she has only free-form answers saved (no
checkbox or radio button, i.e. single-answer or multiple-answer
questions), dues to my error when creating survey. Please fill those
questions (and only those questions) again.
You can check how survey.net viewed your answers at
http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=single&qn=1304
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
From: Jakub Narebski <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:30
I couldn't find if the survey announcement made it to KDbg, collectd,
netconf and itools mailing lists: all of them are "avaiting moderator
approval".
I couldn't send announcement to elinks and revctrl mailing lists, as
they are [true] subscribe only.
If you subscribe to those lists, could you please check if announcement
made it, and if not, post "Git User's Survey 2007" anouncement? TIA.
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
From: Jakub Narebski <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
This is partail summary of Git User's Survey 2007 after 1 week of
running. It is based on "View Text Results" page:
http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=results&qn=1304
We have around 445 individual responses, as compared to (I think) 115
answers (Base = 115) for previous survey. That is quite a bit.
04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to
Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with
only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people
proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like
not many developers...
19. How do you obtain GIT?
Around twice as many people use binary packages as source tarball (or
source package, I think). Around half the people compiles its own git
(pull is also followed by compilation).
26. Which porcelains do you use?
Most people use core-git, some use cogito (the fact that it was lately
deprecated and is no longer developed notwithstanding), some use StGIT,
3 even use pg (despite it is unmaintained). More people use StGIT than
Guilt, but this can be cause by the fact that Guilt (formerly gq) is
younger. Quite a bit use own scripts. 8 choose other... and there is no
"what other" question, unfortunately...
28. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?
Most use gitweb (which is distributed with git), 7 use cgit, 1 wit
(Ruby), most probably XMMS2 project, 1 git-php (I wonder who...), and
there are 20 "other" answers, which I am most curious about. What are
they?
39. Did you participate in previous Git User's Survey?
43 people did out of 368 who answered this question, out of 115 who did
participate in the previous survey. Bit curious.
55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest
to you/your organization?
Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
encompass people who do not use git for work).
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
From: Shawn O. Pearce <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
Jakub Narebski [off-list ref] wrote:
04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to
Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with
only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people
proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like
not many developers...
Rather sad given their user base. gitk seems to have at least 30%
of the respondants while git-gui is somewhere between 10-14%,
depending upon the question asked. Odd. qgit has a smaller
respondant base (~7.7%) but is probably the tool that more Git
users would be comfortable hacking on since it is developed in C++.
--
Shawn.
From: Johannes Schindelin <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
Hi,
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:
Jakub Narebski [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to
Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with
only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people
proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like
not many developers...
Rather sad given their user base.
Not only their user base, but also their portability. Tcl/Tk compile _out
of the box_ on MinGW, for example. That is much more than can be said
about GTK, Python amongst others.
But then, Tcl is not _that_ difficult, and we're doing pretty fine,
methinks.
Ciao,
Dscho
From: Jakub Narebski <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
Shawn O. Pearce wrote:
Jakub Narebski [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
It look like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to
Python; it looks like Python is more popular.
I meant here that Perl to Python is around 3 to 4; more people are
proficient in Python than in Perl.
quoted
C is most popular, with
only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people
proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like
not many developers...
Rather sad given their user base. gitk seems to have at least 30%
of the respondants while git-gui is somewhere between 10-14%,
depending upon the question asked. Odd. qgit has a smaller
respondant base (~7.7%) but is probably the tool that more Git
users would be comfortable hacking on since it is developed in C++.
It is not *that* bad, as there are 14 people proficient in Tcl/Tk,
while there are 5 people who had made 5 or more commits to either
gitk or git-gui. But it is not encouraging.
I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
From: Johannes Schindelin <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
Hi,
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Jakub Narebski wrote:
I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
It is not. I ended my attempts with contempt after two weeks to compile
_Python_ on MinGW. I came to the conclusion that the developers of Python
do not care about being able to compile Python on Windows with Open Source
tools only.
Of course, that means that you cannot compile Python modules with MinGW
(at least as far as I know).
Ciao,
Dscho
From: Gábor Farkas <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
Jakub Narebski wrote:
I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.
p.s: there are some ways to make GTK run on osx, like running it using
the apple x11-server, but then it looks ugly and does not have the
'native' feeling, or try to make it run with the gtk-osx port, which is
incomplete :)
gabor
From: David Kastrup <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
Gábor Farkas [off-list ref] writes:
Jakub Narebski wrote:
quoted
I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.
p.s: there are some ways to make GTK run on osx, like running it using
the apple x11-server, but then it looks ugly and does not have the
native' feeling,
Doesn't Tcl/Tk also look ugly and does not have the native feeling?
But at least a user does not have to invest much work to get there.
--
David Kastrup
From: Gábor Farkas <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
David Kastrup wrote:
Gábor Farkas [off-list ref] writes:
quoted
Jakub Narebski wrote:
quoted
I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...
GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.
p.s: there are some ways to make GTK run on osx, like running it using
the apple x11-server, but then it looks ugly and does not have the
native' feeling,
Doesn't Tcl/Tk also look ugly and does not have the native feeling?
But at least a user does not have to invest much work to get there.
hmm.. he at least needs the X11 server installed (which is not
by-default installed). but that's probably installed for a developer.
gabor
no, i am aware of it, i even mentioned it in my mail, in the P.S. section
or try to make it run with the gtk-osx port, which is incomplete :)
for example, on this page:
http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx/build-instructions
they write:
"
NOTE: This is mainly meant for developers wanting to help out with GTK+
Mac OS X, not for users. The port is not yet finished or usable for
mainstream use.
"
gabor
Tk is integrated in the official Python library while PyGTK is not so
I guess Tk wins even on Python (Idle [included editor] and matplotlib
uses it as default).
PyGTK works pretty well though even on win32 (after installing a
handful dependencies). I haven't tried to compile any of these myself
though, compiling these things on win32 is usually a PITA.
//Torgil
From: Dan Chokola <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski [off-list ref] wrote:
04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?
It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to
Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with
only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people
proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like
not many developers...
Ruby people, represent! (Hopefully I'm not the only one.)
28. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?
Most use gitweb (which is distributed with git), 7 use cgit, 1 wit
(Ruby), most probably XMMS2 project, 1 git-php (I wonder who...), and
there are 20 "other" answers, which I am most curious about. What are
they?
All right! Someone actually uses my crappy Wit interface!
55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest
to you/your organization?
Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
encompass people who do not use git for work).
Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking towards going?
From: Johannes Schindelin <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
Hi,
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:
On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of
interest to you/your organization?
Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
encompass people who do not use git for work).
Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking
towards going?
No. These questions are just questions. Git is GPLv2, and it will
probably stay that forever, so you are _free_ to start a commercial
support scheme for Git, but others are free not to choose it.
I for one could imagine training people, and giving technical support for
companies needing that support.
Ciao,
Dscho
On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
Hi,
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:
quoted
On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of
interest to you/your organization?
Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
encompass people who do not use git for work).
Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking
towards going?
No. These questions are just questions. Git is GPLv2, and it will
probably stay that forever, so you are _free_ to start a commercial
support scheme for Git, but others are free not to choose it.
I for one could imagine training people, and giving technical
support for
companies needing that support.
You seem to imply that GPLv3 would prevent any form of commercial
support for Git...
Section 4 of GPLv3:
"you may offer support or warranty protection for a fee."
--
Benoit Sigoure aka Tsuna
EPITA Research and Development Laboratory
From: Johannes Schindelin <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
Hi,
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Benoit SIGOURE wrote:
On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
quoted
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:
quoted
On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of
interest to you/your organization?
Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
encompass people who do not use git for work).
Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking
towards going?
No. These questions are just questions. Git is GPLv2, and it will
probably stay that forever, so you are _free_ to start a commercial
support scheme for Git, but others are free not to choose it.
I for one could imagine training people, and giving technical support for
companies needing that support.
You seem to imply that GPLv3 would prevent any form of commercial
support for Git...
No, I was not. I was only being overly precise in my description. My
apologies ;-)
Ciao,
Dscho
From: Andreas Ericsson <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
Dan Chokola wrote:
On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest
to you/your organization?
Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
encompass people who do not use git for work).
Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking towards going?
As Dscho wrote, I should think not, but having a company basing its business
around an opensource product usually means a lot of company-like features
get implemented, such as various forms of reporting, documentation, integration
with bugtrackers and trouble-ticket systems, etc, etc...
It is the way of companies to throw money rather than competence at temporary
problems, while more altruistic organizations such as opensource projects do
the exact opposite.
I for one would love if some support company could give git courses in sweden,
since that'd mean I wouldn't have to. ;-)
--
Andreas Ericsson andreas.ericsson@op5.se
OP5 AB www.op5.se
Tel: +46 8-230225 Fax: +46 8-230231
From: Jakub Narebski <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:31
On Mon, Aug 27, 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:
On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski [off-list ref] wrote:
quoted
55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest
to you/your organization?
Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to
encompass people who do not use git for work).
Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking
towards going?
This question was actually requested on git mailing list to be in
the survey...
This question is to get to know if there is sufficient demand for
commercial git support for it to be viable. There are two possible
outcomes:
If there is enough demand, then company selling git support can make
a living. Company selling support for git means more git user's (because
some corp needs to have commercial/external support to be present) and
possibly more developers. It is possible that some revenue falls to main
git developers, be it by paying somebody to hack on git, or paying for
some feature or for fixing a bug fast.
If there is not enough demand, better to know it from onset that to have
company which tries to provide git support bancrupt. No failed support
company means no bad publicity on git; it _might_ mean that community
support is enogh for git...
Note that commercial (paid) support does not clash
with GPL. One does not need change in license to have commercial
git support. GPL allows paid support.
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland
On Aug 27, 2007, at 2:51 AM, Jakub Narebski wrote:
28. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?
Most use gitweb (which is distributed with git), 7 use cgit, 1 wit
(Ruby), most probably XMMS2 project, 1 git-php (I wonder who...), and
there are 20 "other" answers, which I am most curious about. What are
they?
I replied "other" because I didn't know whether all questions were
mandatory or not :D
I don't use a git web interface... for now.
So maybe 19 other people have been as dumb as me and replied "other"
for a similar reason :)
--
Benoit Sigoure aka Tsuna
EPITA Research and Development Laboratory
From: Jakub Narebski <hidden> Date: 2016-06-15 22:43:32
This is partial summary of Git User's Survey 2007 after 2 weeks of
running. It is based on "View Text Results" page:
http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=results&qn=1304
The same information but in graphical form you can see at
http://www.survey.net.nz/results.php?94e135ff41e871a1ea5bcda3ee1856d9
10. What other SCM did/do you use?
Note that this question does not distinguish between SCMs/VCSs which
were used prior to Git and used no longer, SCMs which are used beside
(in parallel) to Git perhaps interacting with Git, and SCMs which are
used instead of Git. Also note that this is _Git User's_ survey, so it
those number for example do not represent number of e.g. users of
Mercurial as compared to e.g. users of Subversion.
Below there is table of SCM used, sorted by the number of responses.
Note that annotations (like "a little CVS") were not weighted here.
There were 502 responses, 25 null responses (eviovalent to "none").
Only SCMs which has count more that 10 are shown. One person can (and
usually did) chose more than one SCM.
Name Count
--------------------------------------------------
Subversion 399
CVS 362
Mercurial 73
Darcs 59
GNU Arch 52
RCS 45
Bazaar-NG 40
Perforce 34
ClearCase 31
Monotone 23
BitKeeper 23
Bazaar 17
SVK 16
SourceSafe 11
SCCS 10
tla+baz+bzr 109
As you can see two most popular SCMs are Subversion ('svn') and CVS,
with Subversion being slightly more popular. Among distributed SCMs
with most count are Mercurial ('hg') and Arch and its descendants
('tla', 'baz', 'bzr').
35. How does GIT compare to other SCM tools you have used?
Answer Count
------------------------------------------------
Better 388
Comparable (equal) 73
Worse 24
TOTAL 485 (129 null)
Clearly Git is superior SCM! (In the minds of _Git users_) ;-)
Seriously, one should take into consideration that those results
are biased, because it is _Git User's_ Survey, and people usually
choose SCM because they think it is best choice.
No answer (null answer) might mean that responder does not use and did
not use other SCMs to compare, or at least think that he/she does not
have sufficient basis for a comparison.
====================================================================
26. Which porcelains do you use?
Multiple answers (one can use more than one porcelain).
Porcelain Count
------------------------------------------------
core-git 428
Cogito (deprecated) 45
Patch management interface layers:
..................................
StGIT 37
Guilt (formerly gq) 13
pg (deprecated, abandoned) 7
my own scripts 74
other 11
It is understandable that Cogito still has some users, even though it is
deprecated, and [I think] all of its functionality can be found in
git-core porcelain. It was meant as SCM / porcelain layer when git-core
didn't have it and consisted almost only of plumbing commands.
Quite a bit of people use patch management interface: StGIT, Guilt, even
deprecated and abandoned pg (Patchy Git). StGIT has more users than
Guilt, although that might be caused by the fact that StGIT was here
longer...
It is interesting that quite a bit of responders script their git usage:
74 "my own script" users.
I am wondering what those 11 other are...
27. Which git GUI do you use?
Multiple answers (one can use more than one GUI). Note that for the
first week and a bit of survey "CLI" answer had no explanation that it
means command line interface, so results might be bit skewed.
GUI Count
------------------------------------------------
CLI (command line) 295
gitk 266
git-gui 91
qgit 68
giggle 43
gitview 13
instaweb 13
tig 38
(h)gct 3
qct 3
KGit 7
git.el 25
other 10
giggle + gitview 56
As one can see almost as many people use gitk as CLI. Most used GUI are
gitk and git-gui, most probably because they are distributed with git,
and because they are portable. QGit is also quite popular, although
GTK+ viewers, namely giggle and gitview have the same count summary
(note that there might be instances of users using both giggle and
gitview). I am a bit suprised about Giggle, I'd say.
Tig (text-mode interface for git) and git.el (GIT mode for Emacs) are
also quite popular.
I wonder what are those 10 other GUI... and I didn't provide "What is
this 'other GUI'?" question...
=====================================================================
44. Do you use the GIT wiki?
233 yes, 239 no, 112 no answer
56. Do you read the mailing list?
168 yes, 303 no, 114 no answer
59. Do you use the IRC channel (#git on irc.freenode.net)?
148 yes, 281 no, 198 no answer
(I do wonder a bit about "no answer" here. Does it mean: "There is git
wiki/git mailing list/#git IRC channel?!? I didn't know."? Or does it
mean something else: "I was too tired to answer this question...")
--
Jakub Narebski
Poland